The sad state of family life in the UK

[Covenanter]

500 years ago there weren't Baptists in England. Now there are. Does that mean the Baptists have "departed from the traditions of the faith"?

I think the Baptist denomination has departed from the Gospel, by their involvement with "Churches Together," merely keeping adult baptism as a tradition.

The Gospel Hall where we were meeting for 20 years was bought by a Grace Baptist group who wanted NONE of the membership to continue with them, though we assured them we would accept their leadership. They wanted the hall for a "church plant" with American support, so I presume it wouldn't be a "church plant" if we had continued with them ....

I believe that there have been Christians in England from the first century, preaching repentance & baptism in Jesus' name. They weren't Baptist denomination, but Christians.

 

[Adonia]

It depends what you mean by 'nuclear family'. If by it you mean just parents living with children in a household, then that concept is a fairly (largely post-Industrial Revolution) recent phenomenon; a far more 'traditional' model of family is the extended family including grandparents and perhaps the odd cousin or uncle and aunt all living together under one roof.

So you'll have to be more precise in your definition

Family members of the same bloodline living under one roof sound like a "traditional" family to me. It's the ones that have just 2 "Mommies" or 2 "Daddies" that seem are off kilter to me. Such families are off kilter because they usurp tradition of one man and one woman in Holy Matrimony which is the perfect setting to have and to raise children.

 

[Matt Black]

If that's what you mean then I would support that...but I would not seek to stigmatise those who don't fit into that cosy definition - particularly if they are not in the Church. Even in the Church we need to be sensitive: for example, to get personal, I am a divorced and remarried man; your Church does not allow such an individual to receive communion. Now, that doesn't particularly bother me as a lapsed Catholic in many other ways but I know it bothers some of my acquaintance who are practising Catholics and yet have been abandoned by their first spouses to then find happiness and raise a family with their second, yet the Church does not permit them access to the Sacrament even though they long to taste of the "medicine of immortality" (St Ignatius of Antioch).

 

[FollowTheWay]

I understand that your breed of Baptists sat idly by while the Godless heathens almost took our nation from us.

My brand follows Jesus not the Republican Party.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If I need to explain that to you, you don't need to be in the discussion.

Deflection

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Which Protestants? Which beliefs? The Calvinists? Or the Arminians? The pedo-baptists? Or the credo-baptists? The dispensationalists? Or the Covenanters? Lutheran LCMS? Or Lutheran LMS?

You forgot the Anglicans, Presbyterians and Methodists.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think the Baptist denomination has departed from the Gospel, by their involvement with "Churches Together," merely keeping adult baptism as a tradition.

The Gospel Hall where we were meeting for 20 years was bought by a Grace Baptist group who wanted NONE of the membership to continue with them, though we assured them we would accept their leadership. They wanted the hall for a "church plant" with American support, so I presume it wouldn't be a "church plant" if we had continued with them ....

I believe that there have been Christians in England from the first century, preaching repentance & baptism in Jesus' name. They weren't Baptist denomination, but Christians.

Actually, The Welsh

 

[Matt Black]

Wales is indeed God's Own Country, with Yorkshire a close second for that title.

- Matt (descendant of Rhodri Mawr 5 times over)

 

[Matt Black]

You forgot the Anglicans, Presbyterians and Methodists.

Thanks - I was more commenting on beliefs and practices rather than specific denominations

 

[Reynolds]

Because it constructs a false image of God that is diametrically opposed to how God is revealed and described elsewhere in Scripture

No. It portrays God consistently with the rest of Scripture.

 

[Reynolds]

500 years ago there weren't Baptists in England. Now there are. Does that mean the Baptists have "departed from the traditions of the faith"? 200 years ago there weren't Dispensationalists in England worth mentioning. Now there are many. Have they likewise "departed from the traditions of the faith"?

There is vast difference between correcting corruption that has crept in and in complete departure from correct traditions. Your throwing out passages of the Bible because you don't like them is a complete departure. You can offer zero, no, not any evidence from text that in any way suggests an allegorical interpretation of the passages at hand.

 

[Reynolds]

Deflection

No. If one lacks the Old Covenant knowledge, sit out the discussion.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks - I was more commenting on beliefs and practices rather than specific denominations

I know but the Presbyterians (through Knox) have there own ideas on Reformed Calvinism so they are worth noting.

The Anglicans & Lutherans I would review as Reformed "Sacramental" Catholics....different from conventional Protestants. Then there are the Puritans.....we would call them congregational today

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wales is indeed God's Own Country, with Yorkshire a close second for that title.

- Matt (descendant of Rhodri Mawr 5 times over)

Llewellyn blood here!

Welsh coal miners in trade and lifestyle in UK & USA.....we have even gone to be presidents of the Confederate states of America.

William Penn wanted Pennsylvania to be originally naming it Welsh Land (Quaker State) before the Sais in London edited it.

 

[Matt Black]

No. It portrays God consistently with the rest of Scripture.

Really? "God is love"="genocidal baby murderer"? Don't think so, matey! Try again

 

[carpro]

No it doesn't mean that. My point was that unregenerate members of society cannot be expected to behave in a Godly manner; the only such society that can so behave is the Church. To believe that society can be legislated into Godliness is to put the cart before the horse: it has been tried many times and doesn't work

You made your point poorly.

 

[Matt Black]

Possibly. Or you misinterpreted it.

 

[Reynolds]

Really? "God is love"="genocidal baby murderer"? Don't think so, matey! Try again

"Genocidal, baby murderer" are your opinions. God is Love. God is also Ruler of the created. Everything He does by defacto becomes loving and good.

 

[Matt Black]

"Genocidal baby murderer" are not my words: they are the precise result of your literal interpretation of that Scripture, which has God commanding the mass extermination of an entire race - men, women, children and infants.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Matt holds God to man’s standards.

He cannot argue this.