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The Second Coming, the Trumpet Blasts, the Bowls of Wrath, and Inheriting the Earth

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Darrell C

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Jesus Christ didn't establish his new covenant for one week, he established it in the one week, when he was cut off after the 62 weeks that come after the 7 weeks (so after the 69 weeks). As such, the covenant being referenced here is concerning Jesus Christ and his new covenant.

Sorry, but the Promise of the New Covenant is not found in Daniel.

Secondly, it is clear in the Prophecy that the Covenant in view is confirmed (strengthened) for one Week. That does not fit at all the Promise of the New Covenant, which was to be established on an everlasting basis.

Third, sacrifice and oblation is relevant to the Covenant of Law...not the New Covenant.

But if you refuse to address these points there is not much more to discuss.


However, the reference to the antichrist, which is the desolator, is the one who desolates Jerusalem and the temple after the 70 weeks.

Again, this is error.

The desolation is clearly listed as within a seven year period, and this is the only period of seven given in the Prophecy. The logical conclusion is that this is Daniel's Seventieth Week.

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that indicates the Abomination of Desolation takes place...after the Seventy Weeks.


He is the Roman seat of authority that continued to live on and that we now know as the papacy.

To quote a favorite detective of mine, "What ineffable twaddle!"

;)

You now have a much greater problem of trying to connect the Church and "Roman Authority." You cannot deny that connection, but neither can you bring a relevant and consistent correlation that in any way ties into Prophecy.

Look, its really simple, there are Seventy Weeks divided into three parts, one seven Weeks long, one 62 Weeks long, and one one Weeks long. It's all right there in Daniel 9:24-27.


That seat of authority is the antichrist occupied by one man throughout those times and even until our times, who persecuted the saints for 1,260 years (time, times, and time and a half),

!260 does not equate to time, times, and half a time.

which we came to know as the inquisitions.

Which did not last for 1260 years...


Although the antichrist is one man, he is not just one man, but a line of men, first as emperors, then as popes, which are all Roman and related to the fourth beast of Daniel that broke into ten kingdoms, which relates to the sixth head of the first beast of Revelation and its ten horns,

Yes, The Antichrist is one man:


2 Thessalonians 2
King James Version (KJV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.




Revelation 19:20
King James Version (KJV)

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.




that also persecutes the saints 42 months (1,260 literal years).

Actually he has but a short time:


Revelation 13
King James Version (KJV)

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.



I'm not sure where you learned that forty two months equals 1260 years (which is nowhere mentioned in Scripture), but at the least you have to recognize the consistency of Scripture in giving 3 1/2 year peiods in regards to the Antichrist (the prince that shall come).


Its pretty obvious that you are trying to force a misinterpretation of these prophecies

And when you can address what I have propsed to you, and, as I have done, show the error in it, then the discussion can continue.

;)


(70 weeks of Daniel) that are clearly speaking of the events of the first coming of the messiah to be some final week in our times, but that simply isn't so.

?

At no time have I mentioned the First Coming.


I have offered a very reasonable explanation, but you continue to refuse to come to understanding.

I have addressed your "reasonable explanation," as well as the errors, which are very basic (i.e., Christ did not establish the New Covenant for one Week, Christians did not destroy the City and Sanctuary), and am awaiting your response on those.

As I said, I can't offer you much help about understanding the first five seals of Revelation unless you first unlearn the false teachings you believe. :Sick

That's gotta be tough for you, lol.

The idea that Christ began opening the Seal Judgments after His death simply do not fit with what Scripture teaches.

The Judgments unleashed in Revelation will occur during the Tribulation Period, Revelation is pretty clear about that. There will be a forty two month period in which the Two Witnesses minister, and at the mid point they will be killed, and then shall the Antichrist take power. It is a specific period described in Revelation, that is in fact the point we have been given the Book.

And now I am out of time, so thanks for the responses, and don't over-worry yourself about that which you feel I need to unlearn. And if you can, just give a thought or two to the points I have raised, and perhaps at some point you will actually want to discuss them.


God bless.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
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You will be surprised to find that in the conclusion that the 1,290 literal years was reached,

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. (Daniel 12:11 [NIV])

In the time that the Dome of the Rock was constructed on the temple mount. Then, this verse,

Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. (Daniel 12:12 [NIV])

1,335 literal years from those years expires in just a few years from today. It is my belief that the coming of Jesus Christ is just a few years away. For even the final formation of the 8th head of the first beast of Revelation is underway as we speak, which is the soon to be United States of Europe.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You will be surprised to find that in the conclusion that the 1,290 literal years was reached,

"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. (Daniel 12:11 [NIV])

In the time that the Dome of the Rock was constructed on the temple mount. Then, this verse,

Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. (Daniel 12:12 [NIV])

1,335 literal years from those years expires in just a few years from today. It is my belief that the coming of Jesus Christ is just a few years away. For even the final formation of the 8th head of the first beast of Revelation is underway as we speak, which is the soon to be United States of Europe.


And the context demands that it is days, as does every other mention of these events in Scripture.

Have a good night, my friend.


God bless.
 

cgaviria

Member
Site Supporter
Sorry, but the Promise of the New Covenant is not found in Daniel.

Secondly, it is clear in the Prophecy that the Covenant in view is confirmed (strengthened) for one Week. That does not fit at all the Promise of the New Covenant, which was to be established on an everlasting basis.

Third, sacrifice and oblation is relevant to the Covenant of Law...not the New Covenant.

But if you refuse to address these points there is not much more to discuss.




Again, this is error.

The desolation is clearly listed as within a seven year period, and this is the only period of seven given in the Prophecy. The logical conclusion is that this is Daniel's Seventieth Week.

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that indicates the Abomination of Desolation takes place...after the Seventy Weeks.




To quote a favorite detective of mine, "What ineffable twaddle!"

;)

You now have a much greater problem of trying to connect the Church and "Roman Authority." You cannot deny that connection, but neither can you bring a relevant and consistent correlation that in any way ties into Prophecy.

Look, its really simple, there are Seventy Weeks divided into three parts, one seven Weeks long, one 62 Weeks long, and one one Weeks long. It's all right there in Daniel 9:24-27.




!260 does not equate to time, times, and half a time.



Which did not last for 1260 years...




Yes, The Antichrist is one man:


2 Thessalonians 2
King James Version (KJV)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.




Revelation 19:20
King James Version (KJV)

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.






Actually he has but a short time:


Revelation 13
King James Version (KJV)

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.



I'm not sure where you learned that forty two months equals 1260 years (which is nowhere mentioned in Scripture), but at the least you have to recognize the consistency of Scripture in giving 3 1/2 year peiods in regards to the Antichrist (the prince that shall come).




And when you can address what I have propsed to you, and, as I have done, show the error in it, then the discussion can continue.

;)




?

At no time have I mentioned the First Coming.




I have addressed your "reasonable explanation," as well as the errors, which are very basic (i.e., Christ did not establish the New Covenant for one Week, Christians did not destroy the City and Sanctuary), and am awaiting your response on those.



That's gotta be tough for you, lol.

The idea that Christ began opening the Seal Judgments after His death simply do not fit with what Scripture teaches.

The Judgments unleashed in Revelation will occur during the Tribulation Period, Revelation is pretty clear about that. There will be a forty two month period in which the Two Witnesses minister, and at the mid point they will be killed, and then shall the Antichrist take power. It is a specific period described in Revelation, that is in fact the point we have been given the Book.

And now I am out of time, so thanks for the responses, and don't over-worry yourself about that which you feel I need to unlearn. And if you can, just give a thought or two to the points I have raised, and perhaps at some point you will actually want to discuss them.


God bless.

I am going to offer you one more pearl of knowledge, that you can either take or discard, as I don't like to argue with men that are stubborn. A "time, times, and half a time" does indeed equate to 1,260 literal years, for a "time" is derived to be one literal year in relation to this other passage,

Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him. (Daniel 4:16 [NIV])

Which were seven literal years that the king of Babylon had the mind of an animal. As such, the expression of "time (1 year), times (2 years), and half a time (.5 year)" (3.5 years) equates to 1,260 literal years, which relates to the 42 months mentioned in Revelation.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am going to offer you one more pearl of knowledge, that you can either take or discard, as I don't like to argue with men that are stubborn. A "time, times, and half a time" does indeed equate to 1,260 literal years, for a "time" is derived to be one literal year in relation to this other passage,

Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him. (Daniel 4:16 [NIV])

Which were seven literal years that the king of Babylon had the mind of an animal. As such, the expression of "time (1 year), times (2 years), and half a time (.5 year)" (3.5 years) equates to 1,260 literal years, which relates to the 42 months mentioned in Revelation.

Then we would need the text to say "1260 times," and that is not what it states.

;)


God bless.
 

Harold Scott

New Member
Site Supporter
Hello Christian, and welcome to the Forum, I hope your time here will be blessed.

He began to open the seals after his resurrection and ascension to heaven, because that is the time he became exalted to sit at the right hand of God,

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Philippians 2:9 [NIV])

Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. (Romans 8:34 [ESV])



I take the view that the Seals have not yet begun to be opened yet. I also view the Judgments listed as three sets of consecutive judgments, rather than the view that all three are the same and that they are expressed differently.

But be glad to discuss it with you with what time I have available.

I would first ask if you have Scripture, other than the above, that might indicate that Christ "...began to open the seals after His Resurrection"?

Again, welcome to the Forum.


God bless.
 

Harold Scott

New Member
Site Supporter

I was reading an old National Geographic about 7 years ago about "chernobyl." In the middle of the article was a statement that stunned me. The author mentioned that in the local language, "chernobyl" means "wormwood." I didn't forget that, and after Fukushima, [which is literally killing the Pacific.] formed the opinion that "wormwood" might be God's way of saying "nuclear" disaster???

If true, we are way into the timeline!

Num 6:24-26!
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I was reading an old National Geographic about 7 years ago about "chernobyl." In the middle of the article was a statement that stunned me. The author mentioned that in the local language, "chernobyl" means "wormwood." I didn't forget that, and after Fukushima, [which is literally killing the Pacific.] formed the opinion that "wormwood" might be God's way of saying "nuclear" disaster???

If true, we are way into the timeline!

Num 6:24-26!


As far as being into the Timeline, I don't see that we are, because we are given specific instruction concerning the Timeline of Events throughout Scripture. And probably the most debated issue that has to be settled in regards to the Tribulation is the Rapture. When we can conclude as to when Scripture indicates the Rapture occurs then we can fit that into the time-line and it helps us to place everything else into order. Revelation is a straightforward description of the events that take place, with perhaps the exception of the parenthetical section, which can cause a little confusion (if you do not view it as parenthetical).

As concerning Nuclear destruction, it is quite possible that there will be nuclear activity in the first half of the Tribulation, however, far worse destruction can come about through the astronomical and geological events described in Revelation. Those are brought about by God, whereas Nuclear activity is man's contribution.

I think it highly likely that in the Flood, though not mentioned, there may have been astronomical events which contributed to the destruction that occurred in that judgment. By the time the Tribulation ends we know that at least one half of the earth's population will have died, which at this point in time is roughly 4 billion people dying in a seven year period.

Nuclear destruction may contribute to that death toll, but, as I said, I think we can look to the judgments God imposes as a far worse devastation on the inhabitants of the earth.

Consider:


Revelation 8:10-11
King James Version (KJV)

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.



This is not a man-made bomb but one that occurs as a result of the judgment of God. The processes involved in nuclear detonation are also seen in an impact of a meteor on the earth. Chernobyl is a curiosity, though, lol. Makes you wonder if they gave it that name because they knew that their plant did in fact make the waters "bitter."

By the way, welcome to the forum. I hope your time here will be blessed and that you in turn will be a blessing to those here. If there is anything I can help you with let me know.


God bless.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This study goes over the events related to the second coming in correlation to the Jewish festivals and old testament prophecies, going from the time of the opening of the sixth seal, to the time of the trumpet blasts of the seventh seal, and to the future time of the new heaven and new earth. The study can be found in English here The Second Coming, the Trumpet Blasts, the Bowls of Wrath, and Inheriting the Earth | Wisdom of God or in Spanish here La Segunda Venida, las Trompetas, las Copas de Ira y Heredando la Tierra | Sabiduria de Dios . Let us begin a discussion on this matter here.
Hello cgavaria,
Welcome to the forum. It will be helpful if you will go to the 'Introductions' forum and post a short biography of yourself. :)

I agree with you that the seals have already been opened. they represent God's decrees for the world between the writing of the book and the Return of Christ. The first five seals, in my understanding, represent things going on in the world right now.
The Rider on the white horse is our Lord Himself. He wears a crown of victory and rides a white horse (Revelation 19:11ff). He has conquered Satan, bound the strong man and now He is now plundering his house (Mark 3:27) and freeing his captives all over the world.
But this goes on against a sombre background. All through the age there will be war, scarcity, disease and death, and martyrdom.
As you say, the sixth seal represents the Return of Christ at the end of the age, and the seventh, the Judgement.
 

cgaviria

Member
Site Supporter
Hello cgavaria,
Welcome to the forum. It will be helpful if you will go to the 'Introductions' forum and post a short biography of yourself. :)

I agree with you that the seals have already been opened. they represent God's decrees for the world between the writing of the book and the Return of Christ. The first five seals, in my understanding, represent things going on in the world right now.
The Rider on the white horse is our Lord Himself. He wears a crown of victory and rides a white horse (Revelation 19:11ff). He has conquered Satan, bound the strong man and now He is now plundering his house (Mark 3:27) and freeing his captives all over the world.
But this goes on against a sombre background. All through the age there will be war, scarcity, disease and death, and martyrdom.
As you say, the sixth seal represents the Return of Christ at the end of the age, and the seventh, the Judgement.

Sure, I'll write a short little spiel about me when I get a moment. I wanted to explain the first four seals to someone else who replied to this thread, but its hard to explain the first 5 seals when your whole understanding of end times is completely skewed. The first four seals represent fallen angels that are sent to the earth for the four purposes symbolized in each seal. When Jesus Christ ascended to heave, all authority was given to him not just on earth, but also in heaven, which includes not only holy angels, but also fallen angels. You can see the evidence for this in a corresponding vision in Zechariah,

Then I looked up again and saw four chariots coming from between two bronze mountains. 2 The first chariot was pulled by red horses, the second by black horses, 3 the third by white horses, and the fourth by powerful dappled-gray horses. 4 “And what are these, my lord?” I asked the angel who was talking with me. 5 The angel replied, “These are the four spirits of heaven who stand before the Lord of all the earth. They are going out to do his work. 6 The chariot with black horses is going north, the chariot with white horses is going west, and the chariot with dappled-gray horses is going south.” 7 The powerful horses were eager to set out to patrol the earth. And the Lord said, “Go and patrol the earth!” So they left at once on their patrol. (Zechariah 6:1-7 [NLT])
 
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