The Self-Centered God

[Rippon]

I say that reverently . A couple posters ( you know who you are !) referenced this Calvinistic belief . The Lord is jealous for the Honor of His Holy Name . It is certainly sinful for fallen people to be self-centered , but it is wholly good for God to bring glory to Himself . He is the Center -- it is right for Him to be self-centered .

Snippets will follow .

Ez. 20:9 But for the sake of my name ...

Ez. 20:22 ... for the sake of my name

Ez. 20:44 ... I deal with you for my name's sake

Ez. 36:22 This is what the Sovereign Lord says : It is not for your sake, ... but for the sake of my holy name .

Ez. 36:32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake ...

Is. 42:8 I am the Lord ; that is my name ! I will not give my glory to another ...

Is. 43:7 everyone who is called by my name , whom I created for my glory

Is. 43:25 I , even I , am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake ...

Is. 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake , I do this . How can I let myself be defamed ? I will not yield my glory to another .

 

[Pastor Larry]

Wouldn't it be sinful if he were not self-centered? What would be greater than himself that he should center himself on?

The reason why it is bad for man to be self-centered is because we are not worthy of it. We should center our affections on God becaues he is worthy of it. That's the same reason God pursues his own glory: he alone is worthy.

 

[Rippon]

Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things . To him be the glory forever ! Amen .

 

[TCGreek]

You guys sound like John Piper. That is so good. I know you would come around to what is at the heart of Scripture: God. Now read "God is the Gospel."

 

[npetreley]

Romans 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things . To him be the glory forever ! Amen .

God set me straight on this early on, even while I was a free-willer and largely unfamiliar with the Bible, and a very new Christian. It was over something incredibly silly, in retrospect. I questioned why God would institute a sacrificial system that required the killing of so many poor animals. That seemed cruel to me.

Then, I was hit by a personal revelation that I believe could only have been directly from God, maybe through Romans, which I had read many times, but hadn't absorbed yet. "I'm God. This is my creation. I'll do whatever I please with it." I felt like, "duh". And, for me, the issue was settled, and I was very comfortable with it.

Years later when I dealt with the issue of God doing all things for His glory and the issues of sovereignty and election, it was actually very easy to accept because I was already comfortable with the notion that God is point of everything, and He has the right to do whatever He wants with His own creation.

Kind of a wacky way to get there, isn't it? But I thought I'd share it anyway.

 

[skypair]

I say that reverently . A couple posters ( you know who you are !) referenced this Calvinistic belief . The Lord is jealous for the Honor of His Holy Name . It is certainly sinful for fallen people to be self-centered , but it is wholly good for God to bring glory to Himself . He is the Center -- it is right for Him to be self-centered.

I believe we have to distinguish between God's glory and His self-centeredness. (BTW, the quote that seems to have started this was actually put forth by R.C. Sproul in "The Invisible Hand" and represented in his mind accusations made by free willers against Sprouls representation of God.).

Anyway, glory to God is great! It's how the world will know Him and what they will know about Him! I know my crowns will be at His feet in heaven (Rev 4:10)!

Self-centered is not one of God's qualities. Time and again He has tried to redeem men to Himself at great Personal sacrifice! You're leaving out the "of Him" in "of Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things."

skypair

 

[npetreley]

Time and again He has tried

Tried?

to redeem men to Himself at great Personal sacrifice!

For what reason? For His glory.

 

[Amy.G]

Tried?



For what reason? For His glory.

I disagree. The reason? His love for us.

But, He is glorified in the process.

 

[npetreley]

I disagree. The reason? His love for us.

But, He is glorified in the process.

You can disagree all you want, but you're wrong.

God's love for His people:

24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Back up and read the whole thing and see why God will do it:

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the LORD,” says the Lord GOD, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Plain as black and white.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Ephesians 1 makes the point that salvation is for the praise of the glory of his grace.

For those who think that God should not be self-centered, what should he be centered on?

 

[Amy.G]

You can disagree all you want, but you're wrong.

God's love for His people:



Back up and read the whole thing and see why God will do it:



Plain as black and white.

John 3:16
For God so LOVED the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

We're both right.

 

[npetreley]

We're both right.

I give up. Someone else can take over the head banging.

 

[Amy.G]

I give up. Someone else can take over the head banging.

Why are you banging your head? That will only give you a headache.

God is glorified in everything He does.

 

[Timtoolman]

Brian damage

Net, you have been banging that head so long that the damage may be permanent. I have been away for sometime and still your goal is too attack those who do not adhere to the teachings of Calvin. God centering on HImself and recieving all the glory is nothing new to those who are not calvies.
I wonder if Moses and Paul (I believe it was those two) who each wished themself accursed were really showing love or arrogance? They don't seem to be very good calvinist quetioning God on who He has picked and wishing themself accursed for others. Didn't they know that God has already picked those for heaven and hell?!! HOw prideful!~ Very bad calvies to question the soverignty of God.

 

[npetreley]

God is glorified in everything He does.

Now you're getting it! I won't risk saying any more than that.

Now answer Larry's question. If God should not be centered upon Himself, then upon whom or what should He be centered?

 

[Amy.G]

Now you're getting it! I won't risk saying any more than that.

Now answer Larry's question. If God should not be centered upon Himself, then upon whom or what should He be centered?

No argument there! He is the beginning, the end, and everything in between.

However, I don't God just sits on His throne thinking about Himself all the time. He is also unselfish in His devotion to His children, willing to sacrifice His only Son to save us. Agree?

 

[DQuixote]

"Go ye therefore unto all the nations, teaching them from the Law and from the traditions. Tell everyone to memorize Ezekiel, whereunto it is as plain as black and white, wherefore they shall design doctrine therefrom. In all your ways acknowledge the Hebrew Bible. Then only will they know that I have chosen Group A, and couldn't care less about Group B. And lo, they will grow in knowledge and wisdom and Calvinism, even unto the end of the age."

 

[TCGreek]

I am reminded from Scripture that God is not like man. Why do we try to no avail to contain God by human reasoning? His thoughts are not like ours, neither his ways like ours. God will always be God. And we will always be human. That is a great chasm that will never ever be closed.

At the heart of Scripture is the sovereignty of God. He dispenses his gracious love as he sees fit. He loves in degrees. Soli Deo Gloria (Rom 11:33ff).

 

[HankD]

I am reminded from Scripture that God is not like man. Why do we try to no avail to contain God by human reasoning? His thoughts are not like ours, neither his ways like ours. God will always be God. And we will always be human. That is a great chasm that will never ever be closed.

I would agree that from our point of view we can't bridge the gap between He and us but He did close it when He became a human being, and became one of us...

Hebrews 2

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.​

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law​

He Himself is that bridge (or ladder) into heaven.​

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.​

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.​

HankD​

 

[J.D.]

His devotion to His children

Does God adore us?