The sermon this morning made me very angry!

[evangelist6589]

I was angry because the sermon was using guilt tactics to get people to tithe which is a unbiblical concept not taught in the NT which teaches Free-Will giving as taught in 2 Cor 9:6-7. I agree that people need to give, but they should NOT be burdened down with guilt. They need to give based on what they have determined to give by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Its a fact that some cannot afford to give 10%, and some can give more. I was very angry but managed to calm myself. I know that everyone would disagree with me, and even those whom carry MacArthur study Bibles need to be ashamed because MacArthur does teach that the tithe is not for today! So if you carry a MacArthur SB and believe in the tithe, you need to give someone else your Bible and buy another one. Please do this!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I was angry because the sermon was using guilt tactics to get people to tithe which is a unbiblical concept not taught in the NT which teaches Free-Will giving as taught in 2 Cor 9:6-7. I agree that people need to give, but they should NOT be burdened down with guilt. They need to give based on what they have determined to give by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Its a fact that some cannot afford to give 10%, and some can give more. I was very angry but managed to calm myself. I know that everyone would disagree with me, and even those whom carry MacArthur study Bibles need to be ashamed because MacArthur does teach that the tithe is not for today! So if you carry a MacArthur SB and believe in the tithe, you need to give someone else your Bible and buy another one. Please do this!

Is this the church you don't belong to?

 

[saturneptune]

I was angry because the sermon was using guilt tactics to get people to tithe which is a unbiblical concept not taught in the NT which teaches Free-Will giving as taught in 2 Cor 9:6-7. I agree that people need to give, but they should NOT be burdened down with guilt. They need to give based on what they have determined to give by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Its a fact that some cannot afford to give 10%, and some can give more. I was very angry but managed to calm myself. I know that everyone would disagree with me, and even those whom carry MacArthur study Bibles need to be ashamed because MacArthur does teach that the tithe is not for today! So if you carry a MacArthur SB and believe in the tithe, you need to give someone else your Bible and buy another one. Please do this!

I did not hear the sermon, but your reaction to the sermon is entirely controlled by you. If you take the sales pitch hook, line, and sinker, then the church staff salary goes up. Based on your post, the sermon is nothing more than a car sales pitch.

I have not heard a sermon on that subject in decades at our church. Our members are cheerful givers and tithers. I can tell you this, if a sermon did appear like that, the offerings would plunge.

 

[evangelist6589]

Is this the church you don't belong to?

Yes. Why does it matter?

 

[HAMel]

evangelist6589, in my humble opinion if believers are not tithing they are in essence not putting the Lord first considering He is the one who has blessed them to even have a job to begin with.

Otherwise, I have to agree with you. Sermons of "guilt" should not be except for where sin is the topic and for sure, it should not be a burden to be a Christian.

Source: (My Humble Opinion)

 

[evangelist6589]

evangelist6589, in my humble opinion if believers are not tithing they are in essence not putting the Lord first considering He is the one who has blessed them to even have a job to begin with.

Otherwise, I have to agree with you. Sermons of "guilt" should not be except for where sin is the topic and for sure, it should not be a burden to be a Christian.

Source: (My Humble Opinion)

I agree but I forgive the pastor for his lack of discernment on this one. My wife offered to buy me the book they were selling on the topic and I kindly said no thanks.

 

[evangelist6589]

I did not hear the sermon, but your reaction to the sermon is entirely controlled by you. If you take the sales pitch hook, line, and sinker, then the church staff salary goes up. Based on your post, the sermon is nothing more than a car sales pitch.

I have not heard a sermon on that subject in decades at our church. Our members are cheerful givers and tithers. I can tell you this, if a sermon did appear like that, the offerings would plunge.

I did not take the sales pitch. I agree that people should be cheerful givers but come on he has preached on this topic for the entire month if not longer, however the on today was basically saying that you are a disobedient Christian if you are not tithing. Such foolishness.

 

[evangelist6589]

I did not hear the sermon, but your reaction to the sermon is entirely controlled by you. If you take the sales pitch hook, line, and sinker, then the church staff salary goes up. Based on your post, the sermon is nothing more than a car sales pitch.

I have not heard a sermon on that subject in decades at our church. Our members are cheerful givers and tithers. I can tell you this, if a sermon did appear like that, the offerings would plunge.

I have been in Reformed and Calvinist Churches that never would teach such non-sense for its unbiblical. One church I was in they did not even pass out a offering plate, they just had a box in the back of the room and people gave as they could. However there was not as many staff at that church and many preached without a salary.

 

[Revmitchell]

So what kind of things did the preacher say that were guilt tactics?

 

[saturneptune]

I did not take the sales pitch. I agree that people should be cheerful givers but come on he has preached on this topic for the entire month if not longer, however the on today was basically saying that you are a disobedient Christian if you are not tithing. Such foolishness.

Yes, it is foolishness. If that is the best subject he has to preach about, perhaps you should find another church. The thinking here is totally wrong. If this pastor fostered an atmosphere of cheering giving, instead of brow beating, both the church and his salary would be much better off. Did he wear his Pharisee costume?

 

[evangelist6589]

So what kind of things did the preacher say that were guilt tactics?

Basically just saying that the tithe was mandatory for NT believers, giving out booklets on tithing, and selling books also on the topic. Those that did not tithe surely would have felt guilty after the message. I was very angry because its not Biblical!

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes, it is foolishness. If that is the best subject he has to preach about, perhaps you should find another church. The thinking here is totally wrong. If this pastor fostered an atmosphere of cheering giving, instead of brow beating, both the church and his salary would be much better off. Did he wear his Pharisee costume?

Pharisee costume? Whats that? Yes my wife and others felt guilty for not tithing. They also gave out lots of booklets and books on tithing. My wife offered to buy me one but I kindly refused and said that I have John MacArthur's teachings of which I politely offered to show someone but they refused to read it.

 

[Revmitchell]

Basically just saying that the tithe was mandatory for NT believers, giving out booklets on tithing, and selling books also on the topic. Those that did not tithe surely would have felt guilty after the message. I was very angry because its not Biblical!

Ok first reasonable people can disagree on this issue. If this pastor truly believes it is what scripture teaches that is not negated simply because you disagree.

Second, what you have just described is not guilt tactics. There have been and are some preachers who use such tactics at times. But what you have described is not some of them. In fact that was nothing more than preaching what he believes to be true.

Third, just because you disagree on this issue does not mean the preaching is being insincere or that he is even wrong. If you cannot hear topics preached on that you disagree with without attacking the preacher or feeling guilty yourself (and that is what this is really all about) then you have a maturity issue.

And that maturity issue is what currently has you and your wife divided.

 

[evangelist6589]

Ok first reasonable people can disagree on this issue. If this pastor truly believes it is what scripture teaches that is not negated simply because you disagree.

Second, what you have just described is not guilt tactics. There have been and are some preachers who use such tactics at times. But what you have described is not some of them. In fact that was nothing more than preaching what he believes to be true.

Third, just because you disagree on this issue does not mean the preaching is being insincere or that he is even wrong. If you cannot hear topics preached on that you disagree with without attacking the preacher or feeling guilty yourself (and that is what this is really all about) then you have a maturity issue.

And that maturity issue is what currently has you and your wife divided.

You are partly correct and while I wanted to bring it up in SS and argue my point I remained silent. When I said the closing prayer I said that I did not agree with the tithe, but prayed that the message would encourage more "cheerful givers" whom would give to the church and to missions. When my wife and me talk about it later I will simply state that I do not believe in the tithe but believe in cheerful giving. My latest FB post says it all.

So many believe in "tithing" and have not examined what the Bible really says on this. The tithe was a OT taxation system to support the government and the jews under the Mosaic law paid 25% anyways. The NT teaches volunteer giving as supported by 2 Cor 9:6-7. Each one should give what he has determined in his heart to give and should not be under guilt, but must be a cheerful giver.

 

[JonC]

I don’t think that you should rid yourself of all commentaries or study notes simply because you disagree with some of the author’s interpretation. There are points where I disagree with MacArthur, but I also own several of his works. I think that the very last thing you should pay attention to in a study bible is the author’s interpretations, and even then you are free to reject some of the notes.

Regarding those who hold to tithing - it is not a lack of discernment but rather a differing in interpretation from your view. Although some may reject the tithe, specifically, as pertaining to the church - they cannot dismiss the principle and remain biblical. It is not unbiblical to believe that the NT church should tithe - it is also not unbiblical to suggest that they are not bound by the tithe but instead give sacrificially. Instead it is a difference in interpretation. It is not just giving “cheerfully” out of abundance for many who reject tithing - it is relying on God’s provision (giving what is left over is not sacrificial giving).

 

[HungryInherit]

Johnny Mac is your Mick Jagger huh? Do you tremble in his presence?

 

[righteousdude2]

Sounds like a WOF Church

I was angry because the sermon was using guilt tactics to get people to tithe which is a unbiblical concept not taught in the NT which teaches Free-Will giving as taught in 2 Cor 9:6-7. I agree that people need to give, but they should NOT be burdened down with guilt. They need to give based on what they have determined to give by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Its a fact that some cannot afford to give 10%, and some can give more. I was very angry but managed to calm myself. I know that everyone would disagree with me, and even those whom carry MacArthur study Bibles need to be ashamed because MacArthur does teach that the tithe is not for today! So if you carry a MacArthur SB and believe in the tithe, you need to give someone else your Bible and buy another one. Please do this!

I've sat through many of these pulpit guilt trips, and as a pastor, I've been instructed, actually told to or else, to preach guilt like sermons to increase the giving!

However, the churches that I believe a nortoriuos for preaching heavy-handed tactics to squeeze more money from the rocks in the pews, is at those WOF churches, and they always tag the sermon with phrases about how our God will prosperous and give us better things for increasing our gifts. And they also preach that those who don't have , don't have because they don't give enough!

I feel for you brother. I've sat through some good messages on giving, but, unfortunately, more bad ones. If it made you mad/angry, maybe next time you will excuse yourself and get up and go get a breath of fresh air!

God bless, and thanks for this post!

 

[evangelist6589]

I've sat through many of these pulpit guilt trips, and as a pastor, I've been instructed, actually told to or else, to preach guilt like sermons to increase the giving!

However, the churches that I believe a nortoriuos for preaching heavy-handed tactics to squeeze more money from the rocks in the pews, is at those WOF churches, and they always tag the sermon with phrases about how our God will prosperous and give us better things for increasing our gifts. And they also preach that those who don't have , don't have because they don't give enough!

I feel for you brother. I've sat through some good messages on giving, but, unfortunately, more bad ones. If it made you mad/angry, maybe next time you will excuse yourself and get up and go get a breath of fresh air!

God bless, and thanks for this post!

No its a IFB church and he did not preach a prosperity gospel. However he did not preach a Reformed message neither. I mean I encourage free-will giving, but not burdening people down with guilt as what may have happened yesterday. Its too bad... My wife gave the church $100 after the message which is a good thing if that is what the Spirit instructed, however she does not regularly give money. I usually give money when I have a income to the church and para church ministries. However as of late in Colorado my income has been irregular. But if I did not know any better I may have wrote a check for everything in my bank account after such a message, when that may not have been what the Spirit instructed.

 

[quantumfaith]

No its a IFB church and he did not preach a prosperity gospel. However he did not preach a Reformed message neither. I mean I encourage free-will giving, but not burdening people down with guilt as what may have happened yesterday. Its too bad... My wife gave the church $100 after the message which is a good thing if that is what the Spirit instructed, however she does not regularly give money. I usually give money when I have a income to the church and para church ministries. However as of late in Colorado my income has been irregular. But if I did not know any better I may have wrote a check for everything in my bank account after such a message, when that may not have been what the Spirit instructed.

You mean you are for "free-will" giving, but not "free-will"?

 

[InTheLight]

You mean you are for "free-will" giving, but not "free-will"?

Beat me to it! :thumbs:

As to Reformed churches not teaching tithing, that is not universally true. I attended a Calvinist Baptist church in the early-mid 2000's and they preached the tithe. In fact, the pastor was so adamant about it that he said if you couldn't tithe 10% to the local church you should sell your house and move into a smaller house so that you could tithe and would not be disobedient. Meanwhile, he admitted that he was not tithing 10% to HIS OWN CHURCH because he had commitments to other ministries from before the time he came to become pastor at this church.

That was the last straw for me.