The sign of the son of man

[kyredneck]

.....Of course the Old Covenant went out of effect...but not in AD 70! The Old Covenant ended at the Cross and the Church knew this!......

Heheh, what does this one mean Mel?:

The law and the prophets were until John: from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached,......Lu 16:16

That passage makes it sound as if the old covenant was made void with the advent of John the Baptist.

 

[HankD]

Hank, brother, this [self defining] passage defines 'the world' (kosmos) as 'them who are under the law'. Paul is using kosmos here to mean this kosmos:

Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing.
Jn 18:20

Yes kyredneck, but though Jesus spoke openly in the temple he has indeed spoken also openly to the whole world because His words are forever recorded in the New Testament which has gone out throughout the inhabited earth.

You and I are not Jews, yet we "know" the Law. The whole world (for the most part) is aware of the Jewish-Christian 10 commandments.

Paul in preaching to the Gentiles and reasoniing with them would appeal to the Law (Idolatry) as reason to repent and believe on Christ because of the coming judgment:

e.g.
Acts 17

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

I don't even remember what this debate is all about.​

The law of Moses is the standard He gave to Israel, however men without Christ will be judged by elements of the law which should be evident to them as Paul reasons with lawless gentiles to turn to Jesus Christ from their idols.​

the verses you quoted previously were given to those of us who have received Christ and have been regenerated. We are dead to sin whose strength comes from the law.​

The biblical definition of sin is lawlessness, having no law or failing the law in even one point.​

We live by faith in the Son of God and are led of the Spirit, live and walk in the Spirit and are not under the law or it's curse.​

HankD​

 

[lastday]

Lastday

Kyredneck,
You quoted me of Lastday saying:

Of course the Old Covenant went out of effect...but not in AD 70! The Old Covenant ended at the Cross and the Church knew this!......

After asking what this means, you observe:

The law and prophets were until John:from that time the gospel of the kingdom of God is preached. Luke 16:16.
That passage makes it sound as if the old covenant was made void with the advent of John the Baptist.

Jesus proclaimed the message that the Kingdom of God was among them.
Much later He told the Disciples the Kingdom was not coming immediately.
His Gospel promised immediate entrance into all "blessings" of the Kingdom.

Keeping the Law was no longer required for participation in the Kingdom.
The Acts 15 Council convinced Jews that the Law had been superseded.
Jews nationally are blinded to our New Covenant based on Christ's death.

The New Covenant of Jer.31; Heb.8; Rom.11 is not a "Blood Covenant".
Rather it involves "forgiveness of sin and acceptance of Jewish sorrow".
It will still require the sacrificial system as the remembrance of His grace.

In fact the Gentile nations must share in the worship of God at Jerusalem.
The purpose is to lead these nations into an eternal relationship with God.
The Davidic Covenant occurs when Jesus casts the Goat nations into Hell.
Mel

 

[lastday]

Lastday

Truth Files:
What is your response to the following facts?

Jesus certainly applied the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy to that of the
great tribulation and to the resurrection of the Saints when He comes the
second time!

As the Messiah, He was "cut off" 5 days after the 69th (that is, the SOLAR aspect of the final) "7" was finished.
The SOLAR fulfillment was His Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem to fulfill Zech.9:9 and Dan.9:26A!!

Daniel's prophecy means nothing unless Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14,
5 days after the 69th Seven was fulfilled on the SOLAR calendar to the very DAY...on Palm Sunday, Nisan 9.
But the 21 extra Prophetic days did not end until Nisan 30...21 days "AFTER" Jesus fulfilled the SOLAR days on Nisan 9!!!

The TIME GAP between Dan.9:26A and 9:26 was forced by the text of Dan.9:26B which was fulfilled 37 years after Christ died...in AD 70!

But Hosea requires the gap to last for 2000 years...until 2033 AD!!

We have about 20 years to go before Satan is cast from heaven and the Abomination sits in the Temple and is opposed by the Two Prophets
in order to fulfill the final 1260 (+3) days!!! Matt.24:15; Rev.12: 7-14 and Rev.11:1-11.

The "last day" of 69 Prophetic sets of 7 from BC 444 to AD 33, that of 173,880 days (360x7x69), was Sunday, Nisan 30, Ad 33. Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14...
16 days before the "last day" of 483 years (69x7). He died 16 days before the end of the 69th "7"!

The "last day" of the Solar countdown from BC 444 to AD 33, that of 173,859 days (365.25x7x68) was Sunday, Nisan 9, AD 33. Jesus fulfilled Zech.9:9 just 21
days before the Prophetic end of the 69th "7". Palm Sunday was the Day the Jews failed to recognize and which Jesus referred to as the "Day of His visitation"!!

Both the 68 Sets of Solar 7's and 69 sets of Prophetic 7's fulfilled Dan.9:26A all of 37 years before the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. Since the gap between
AD 33 and AD 70 is only a part of the 2000 years that separates the 69th and 70th Seven, Jesus placed the Endtime of Daniel's 1290 days in the Eschatological
context of His coming at the "end of time"!!!
Mel

 

[lastday]

Correction:
I wrote:

The TIME GAP between Dan.9:26A and 9:26 was forced by the text of
Dan.9:26B which was fulfilled 37 years after Christ died...in AD 70!

It should have been between "Dan.9:26A and 9:27" with 9:26B waiting
until AD 70 to show a gap of 37 years separated Christ's death and the
destruction of the second Jewish Temple!

Jesus revealed that, on Palm Sunday, Nisan 9, AD 33, the last SOLAR day in
the countdown from BC 444 until that Day was a fulfillment of Zech.9:9!!

It was almost the fulfillment of Dan.9:26A which required that He would be
cut off on Nisan 14 (five days later) after being presented as prince Messiah!!!

Therefore, the 37-year gap that began with Nisan 30, AD 33, continues until
the "abomination sits in (a third) Temple demanding he be worshiped as God!

This act is part of the "stage setting" that must occur prior to the 6th Seal,
the signs of which our friend Truth, claims can begin to occur at any moment!!

Jesus placed these Signs (Rev.6:12-17) "immediately AFTER the great tribulation"!!!
Mel

 

[Truth Files]

"Jesus placed these Signs (Rev.6:12-17) "immediately AFTER the great tribulation"!!!"

Wrong Mel

This is where you are confused

Reveation 6:12-17 and Matthes 24:29-13 are not the same events ..... similar, but no the same

The first is at the beginning of the Lord's hour [time] of trial and judgment, and the second is at the end just after the period

There are distinct differences ..... and 2550 days between

Study both and see if you can tell the difference

If not I will show you

 

[lastday]

Lastday

Truth,

Show Me why

Rev.6:12-17 and Matthew 24:29-31 are not the same events

I'm sure you will say the signs of Rev.6:12-17 are "before" the 70th "7" of Daniel because Joel states these signs will come "before the Day of the Lord";
but to do this you must prove the Day of Wrath includes the entire period of 2550 days!

Can you disprove Joel saw the Signs just "before" the Events of the Day Christ appears which will occur "after" the Great Tribulation ends...and
then prove the 2550-day period constitutes the Day of God's wrath?

How can the proclamation that God's wrath has come be made 7 years before the last Plague "completes His anger" (thumos; not wrath, orgay)??

How do you explain that, because the Temple opens after the Last Plague of His Anger (thumos) empties in the air, "no one can enter the Temple
in heaven for the 7th Trumpet to proclaim God's Wrath "has come"???

You are assuming the entire "setting" for the start of the 70th "7" is now in
place because the Jews are being gathered back to their land. We believe
that world government must be in place before the 70th "7" can begin!

Jesus said "we will know" when the End is Near; and we don't yet know for sure. Until we "see the Abomination in the Temple", we should not
assume the Signs of Seal Six may occur at any moment!!

So I respectfully challenge your assumptions that...(1) the 70th "7" could begin tomorrow. (2) Seven years separate the Signs of Seal 6 and
the Signs of Matt.24:29. (3) God's "Day of Wrath" begins 7 years before the 7 last Plagues exhaust His patience having "completed His anger"!!!
Mel

 

[Truth Files]

I do no buy your pre-wrath post tribulational view at all

"Before" the day of the Lord means in front if it, part of it, at the beginning

What world government Mel?

Are you an NWO pusher?

This idea is not Biblical

The coming tribulation period of 2550 will bring nothing but world disorder

The little horn and his 10 other kings will thrive in a world with a blade runned society

He will rule the Middle East, but never a global government

His core followers will reside in the Middle East

Most nations who oppose him will be attacked and seriously damaged by his responses

And you will see the abomination set up if you end up in the tribulation period at the Middle of the 70th week .... if your TV still works

And in this case you will have missed the Lord's call to immortalize the church of today

I also view the seals differently than you do

These are symbolic portents and a preview of the upcoming prevalent conditions of the tribulation period, not the actual events themselves

All of the seals must be removed from the scroll of the actual judgment period by the Lord before the scroll will open

The actual judgment events on the earth begin in chapter 8 just after the 144000 Israelites are sealed and there is a short silence in heaven [seal 7]

The prevaling conditions of the 2550 days:
The first; the spreading of the gospel of the kingdom
The second; intense angelic and human warfare
The third; extensive wolrdwide economic collapse
The fourth; Massive human death
The fifth; martyrdom
The sixth; human response to the coming judgments [this seal leads up to the actual judgments beginning in chapter 8]

All 6 trumpets will blow one after the other in rapid fire and the first target will be the great city of MBG [first 4]

Satan will also arive on the earth and the abyss and Euphrates angelics will be released [next 2]

The 7th trumpet will not blow until just toward the end of the 70th week time frame [2520 days of the period]

Then the Lord will turn on the kingdom of the beast and his followers and destroy them in the next 30 days

You are two dependant upon the following false prophets and false teachers for your understanding:

Bullinger [alchemy, divination]
Biltz [Date setting]
Rosenthal [pre-wrath]
Warnock [Jewish festivals]
Strandberg, James, Lindsey, Kinsella [rapture ready NWO, EU, RCC teachers]

 

[lastday]

Lastday

Truth Files,

Is that the best you can do?
Classify me as a false teacher??
Continue to ignore my questions???

I seek to discuss ideas with people who are responsive!
I find nothing responsive in your writings about God's timing!!
You seem completely lost in promoting two periods of the Day of Wrath!!!
Mel

 

[lastday]

Lastday

9/13/2010 - 3:00 PM - #48 - Lord's Discourse:
Truth,
You write:

There will be no signs or warnings given to earth dwellers before the 6th seal portent leads to the
beginning of actual Judgment events of the tribulation period [Rev.8]

John reveals, in the 2nd Seal, that "peace will be taken from the earth" before the signs of the Day of Wrath can begin!

That corresponds to the "breaking of the covenant of Dan.9:27 in the midst of Daniel's 70th "7". This is part of the "stage setting" for the Day of Wrath...
a stage setting that occurs PRIOR to the Signs of Seal #Six!!

I don't see how you can support your claim that "no prophecy needs to be fulfilled before the Day of Wrath begins...that it could begin today"!!!
Mel
9/13/2010 - 4:11 PM - #49 - Lord's Discourse - Truth's Response:

Well, you just don't see it Mel. I do.

Is this simply evasiveness or the concession that you could be wrong at insisting "no event must precede the start of the 70th '7'"?
Everyone you may talk to will affirm the Antichrist takes peace from earth at mid-term of the 70th "7". You stake your entire viewpoint
on disproving this consensus.
For it is clear that removing peace from earth precedes the Signs of Seal 6.
Mel

 

[lastday]

Lastday

dwmoeller1,
Inverse Parallel Sets the stage for Christ's Second Coming.

Rev.12:1-14 (SC precipitated by conflict of 1260 Endtime Days):

A. Signs in heaven of Christ's first coming before His ascent to heaven.
B. Followed by 1260 Endtime Days before Christ returns from heaven.
Rev.11:3-12 (SC Anticipated by Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7):
B. Two Prophets finish God's mystery during 1260 days of conflict.
A. Signs of Christ's second coming as Prophets ascend to heaven.

On Another Pattern in Revelation...
While we are looking at the Big Picture,
We might expand to ABCD and DCBA as follows:

Inverse Parallelism of 1260 Endtime Days and Christ's Coming:
Rev.12:5-14:

A. At Christ's Ascent to Heaven He is "about to rule the nations". 12:5.
B. 1260 Endtime days precede Christ's 2nd Coming on Lastday. 12:6.
C. Days filled with open conflict between God and Satan. 12:7-9.
D. God's Kingdom Power vs Satan during 3 1/2 Times. 12:10-14.

Rev.11:3-17:
D. Two Prophets stand before God against Beast for 1260 days. 11:3-6.
C. Conflict between Beast and Prophets ends on day #1260. 11:7-10.
B. Prophesied 1260 days end with last woe coming quickly. 11:11-14.
A. Christ begins Rule at Trump #7 Coronation on Lastday. 11:15-17.

Chiasmos Parallels set the relationship of 1260 Endtime Days to the SC.
Mel

 

[lastday]

Lastday

Friends, About the so-called "2550 days"

The Prophetic countdown for the 70th "7" of Daniel, as well as for the first
69 sets of seven, is a multiple of 30-day months. The key to this counting
is the mention of 1290 days which gives us 43 months...one month extra!

Daniel, and the wise men who calculated the prophecy based on 30-day
months, realized that each solar-year period of 365 days produced an
extra 35 days every 7-year period. The 1290 days of Dan.12:11 simply
recognizes the existence of enough extra days for an extra 43rd month.
The total 1335 days brings Israel to Hanukkah; dedication of the Temple!!

So it is incorrect to include the extra 30-day month as part of the Endtime.
The "mystery of God ends in the (3) days when the 7th Trumpet is about
to sound that 'God's wrath has come'". Daniel was told that "all things are
accomplished during the 3.5 times (1260) days of the great tribulation". I
would like to return to my basic premise that Christ comes at the End of Time (the Lastday) which must occur at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet...
3 days after the Two Prophets are killed by the Beast...3 days that allow the armies of the Evil Trio to rape and pillage Israel as they cross the
Euphrates River and gather precipitously for the slaughter at Armageddon when Christ appears with all the Saints!!!

The reason the Prophets lie dead for 3.5 days, rather than 3 or 4, is to alert the Jewish mind to the possibility that their Messiah could rescue the
"saints who come with Him on the Day of the Lord" (according to Zech.14:1-6) while they, the Remnant are left behind until the Twilight Hour which
begins a new day...in this case a Sunday! There will be two "special days of rest" per Lev.
25:34-39 that begin an "8-Day Celebration" from Sunday to Sunday!! This is
the beginning of the 7th Millennium...It begins the 1000-year Day of the Lord!!!

Truth Files has imagined that Zech.14:1-2 belongs to a period of years prior to the "one unique day that is neither day nor night...known only to the Lord
and which ends at Twilight"! The days that separate Zech.14:2 and 3 are the 3.5 days that occur "after the 2nd woe has seen the armies from the East
kill a third of mankind in one hour"!! Rev.11:14. The Third woe comes "quickly" as these armies are pillaging and destroying the lives and homes of the
Jews who hope for their Messiah to rescue them as He has promised!!!

On that single Day the Lord will "come and gather the elect from earth to
meet Him for the Wedding/Rewards in the sky during the Hour of Trial !
While the Jews mourn and pray to escape all these things and to stand
before the Son of Man!! But not likely until the first of the two "days of rest"
is over at the beginning of the Twilight Hour!!!
Mel