The Sin of Unbelief

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: It was their duty, and their duty alone to see that this gospel was carried out to all men.

HP: You jump to unwarranted conclusions. First, because Christ gave this command to his disciples, what evidence do you have that it was “their duty alone” to see that the gospel was carried out? If I give you a command, is that proof that the command was solely to you? I certainly do not believe it would necessitate any such conclusion.

Next, you have stated or implied that all men have received the gospel. Is it even within the realm of possibilities to you that before they could go an preach this gospel message, that some may have died before they were reached? If they of necessity had already had the gospel preached to them, or would in spite of any or all other efforts, why would any need to be sent?? Are we giving serious thought to the implications of our positions?

 

[DHK]

HP: You jump to unwarranted conclusions. First, because Christ gave this command to his disciples, what evidence do you have that it was “their duty alone” to see that the gospel was carried out? If I give you a command, is that proof that the command was solely to you? I certainly do not believe it would necessitate any such conclusion.

I think you jumped to that conclusion.
The Great Commission was given to eleven. That fact cannot be disputed. They were the only ones there.
But of course the Great Commission is applicable to all believers. They were to go and "teach all things whatsoever I have commanded you." Over and over again we see that the foundation of the church is: first, Christ; second, the apostles; third, the prophets, and then you and I as believers in Christ. Our foundation is Christ and the apostles.

In Acts 8 it was the church as a whole that went everywhere preaching the word, while the apostles remained in Jerusalem. But these believers had been taught.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
--There is a principle here of spiritual reproduction.

Next, you have stated or implied that all men have received the gospel. Is it even within the realm of possibilities to you that before they could go an preach this gospel message, that some may have died before they were reached? If they of necessity had already had the gospel preached to them, or would in spite of any or all other efforts, why would any need to be sent?? Are we giving serious thought to the implications of our positions?

Are we giving serious thought to the command Jesus gave them; or did he give a command to the eleven that was impossible for them to carry out?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Are we giving serious thought to the command Jesus gave them; or did he give a command to the eleven that was impossible for them to carry out?

HP: You tell us. Does God require impossibilities out of man?

 

[DHK]

HP: You tell us. Does God require impossibilities out of man?

If a man is a born again believer and has a son. If he never once tells his son about Christ. His son dies and goes to hell. Who bears the responsibility?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim

HP: You tell us. Does God require impossibilities out of man?

DHK: If a man is a born again believer and has a son. If he never once tells his son about Christ. His son dies and goes to hell. Who bears the responsibility?

HP: What does the red herring you now bring to the table have to do with the question we were discussing about God requiring or nor requiring impossibilities out of man??

 

[LeBuick]

No it does not, but the reason one has the malady of sin is not due to the rejection of Jesus Christ. It started and is caused by sin, the willful disobedience to known commandments of God.

I didn't say it was how man has sin. I said it is why man still has sin. Their sins can be forgiven if they only believe.

I said you are confusing ideologies because the hair you are trying to split with the word unbelief is to skinny to split. One is either saved or not saved. Their is no neutrality or middle ground.

We done need to establish the damning sin, sin already equals damnation. And unless that sin is forgiven you will be damned at the judgment. There is only one way to have that sin forgiven, and His name is Jesus.

IOW, one can have unbelief (weak faith) and still be saved. We all have some degree of unbelief which is the place where are faith gives away to our human logic or common sense and we lean to our own understanding.

 

[DHK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim

HP: You tell us. Does God require impossibilities out of man?


HP: What does the red herring you now bring to the table have to do with the question we were discussing about God requiring or nor requiring impossibilities out of man??

It is not a red herring.

If a man is a born again believer and has a son. If he never once tells his son about Christ. His son dies and goes to hell. Who bears the responsibility?

God told Ezekiel that he had made Ezekiel a watchman. If Ezekiel failed to warn the people of their way then their blood would be on his hands. In principle the same is true today.

We ask the question about those who have never heard. Perhaps the answer lay in the neglect of Christians to carry out their responsibility in regards to the Great Commission. What have you (you in general) done to take the gospel to the utmost ends of the earth. If we haven't done all that we possibly can, then their blood will be upon our hands.
Every Christian is a missionary. The call in the Bible is to go; never to stay.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Le Buick: IOW, one can have unbelief (weak faith) and still be saved. We all have some degree of unbelief which is the place where are faith gives away to our human logic or common sense and we lean to our own understanding.

HP: Good point. :thumbs:

I believe it would be accurate to say that unbelief is not necessarily sin. When Thomas doubted, Jesus did not say anything to him that would indicate his lack of belief was sin, but rather simply encouraged him to believe by added demonstration. Belief is not something we always turn on and off like a water spout, but rather at times we go through periods of uncertainty and trial. At times we simply do not know what to believe. Our minds and hearts are at many times in the process of developing belief.

Could we agree that to be in a state of unbelief or weak faith, may or may not be sin?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: It is not a red herring.

HP: It has nothing to do with the question at hand. If not a red herring, could it possibly be a pink tuna?

DHK: If a man is a born again believer and has a son. If he never once tells his son about Christ. His son dies and goes to hell. Who bears the responsibility?

HP: Although I do not see any connection to the question, I will attempt an answer. First your illustration is not applicable for it involves a stark contradiction. What is impossible is for one to conceive of the possibility of your illustration. I believe it to be an utter impossibility for a Chrsitian man to raise his children without telling them the gospel message. That is an impossibility.

Now getting back to the question at hand, God never requires impossibilities out of man. To do so would be the worst kind of taskmaster, requiring that which God knows full well no man can accomplish. What kind of a wicked tyrant would do that?

DHK: God told Ezekiel that he had made Ezekiel a watchman. If Ezekiel failed to warn the people of their way then their blood would be on his hands. In principle the same is true today.

HP: That is not to say that the individuals themselves would not stand fully accountable to God for failure to do that which they had knowledge of, now would it?

DHK: We ask the question about those who have never heard. Perhaps the answer lay in the neglect of Christians to carry out their responsibility in regards to the Great Commission.

HP: Yet another red herring. Regardless if every Christian does their full duty at all times, those that end up lost will be lost in the end due to their own willful rebellion against known commandments of God. God requiring their blood at our hands does not negate or takeaway from their own personal guilt.

DHK: What have you (you in general) done to take the gospel to the utmost ends of the earth. If we haven't done all that we possibly can, then their blood will be upon our hands.

HP: What I have done or failed to do is between my God and myself.

DHK: Every Christian is a missionary. The call in the Bible is to go; never to stay.

HP: It takes those that stay by the stuff as well as those that ‘go.’ Both share in the harvest. We need to be faithful to the Lord’s work wherever that calling might or might not lead. I certainly would encourage those to go who feel so led of the Lord, but I would never simply or blindly encourage ‘all’ to head out on a foreign missionary venture.