The Sinner's Prayer

[DaveXR650]

I think Flower's might be right this time.

 

[JonC]

I think Flower's might be right this time.

Very good video....and I agree with Flowers on this one.

To be fair, those who "wage war" on the "sinners prayer" and even on inviting people to, as Spurgeon would often do, "come and drink freely" as an invitation lack understanding of those things when rightly practices.

Their misunderstanding stems from mischaracterizing the whole based on instances of misuse, and this is many times due to personal experiences they had in their lives.

We see this a lot in churches. Somebody attends a church with a gym, but the church uses the gym in a way that somebody frowns upon. Now all church gyms are ungodly.


I kinda disagree with both Platt (one of my favorite evangelists-missionaries) and Flowers about what to do when "preachers" misuse the gospel.

I think we guard those under our charge against false teaching, but Paul praised God that those in his day misusing the gospel were being used by God to reach people with the gospel.


My conclusion is that if your church uses the "sinners prayer"to explain, confirm, and professing Christ then great.

If your church is opposed to using the "sinners prayer" but you have another means of explaining, confirming, and professing Christ then great too.

Christians need to stop focusing on "killing their own" and focus on Christ, His gospel, discipleship, equipping and uplifting one another, and "pleading with men to be reconciled to God".

We, as the body of Christ, should be about the work of the Kingdom rather than becoming an adversary to other members of the Body.

 

[MMDAN]

In regard to the sinner's prayer, reciting a sinner's prayer will not accomplish anything on its own. I must have prayed the sinner's prayer 20 different times with Pat Robertson several years ago while watching the 700 Club when I was a teenager, yet nothing happened. Why? Because there was no repentance and faith. Such a prayer needs to include what a person knows, understands, and believes about their sinfulness and need for salvation, followed by repentance/faith. People need to hear and believe the gospel. (Acts 15:7-9; Romans 1:16) Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

For someone who comes to the realization that they are lost and in need of Jesus Christ to save them, (Romans 3:23; 6:23) they may obtain salvation only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Ephesians 2:8,9) One needs to understand that Jesus Christ, God in human form, took their sins and paid the penalty for their sins by His sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, was buried, and rose again the third day, and they need to make a genuine and willful decision to totally trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6)

Now if subsequent to such a decision, a person would like to pray what some call a "sinner’s prayer," (calling on the name of the Lord to save them) they may do so, as long as they understand that it was their decision to trust in Jesus Christ for salvation that apprehends their salvation and not simply reciting a prayer "in of itself." Reciting a prayer, in of itself does not save, as if it's a magical formula to recite a set of words, but prayer may be used to sincerely call upon the name of the Lord. Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[DaveXR650]

I think Flower's says it well at the 2:30-3 minute mark where he just says that they over state their case and what they are really against is the misuse and manipulation of people which he agrees is a problem.

What always surprises me is that while we know Spurgeon did it, but Owen and Edwards both have sermons flat out saying that Christ has died, everything is in place, the only thing still lacking is your consent, and you need to do this now. That sounds an awful lot like an invitation to me.

 

[canadyjd]

I have no problem with people praying to Christ for forgiveness.

The problem I see is other people declaring these folks are now saved because they said the prayer.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

I have no problem with people praying to Christ for forgiveness.

The problem I see is other people declaring these folks are now saved because they said the prayer.

peace to you

I agree.

This issue has been discussed here before, and each time it seems sides talk past one another.

I do think it is appropriate to tell somebody that if the things in the "sinners prayer" genuinely ring true in their lives that they are saved.

But most of the time it seems those against the "prayer" are arguing against something that rarely (if ever) occurs in real life (the "prayer" being used as a type of incantation for salvation).

The point of the "sinners prayer" is to acknowledge the work that has been done in the life of a sinner upon salvation. That is why most pastors who use the "prayer" begin with an "if".

 

[canadyjd]

I agree.

This issue has been discussed here before, and each time it seems sides talk past one another.

I do think it is appropriate to tell somebody that if the things in the "sinners prayer" genuinely ring true in their lives that they are saved.

But most of the time it seems those against the "prayer" are arguing against something that rarely (if ever) occurs in real life (the "prayer" being used as a type of incantation for salvation).

The point of the "sinners prayer" is to acknowledge the work that has been done in the life of a sinner upon salvation. That is why most pastors who use the "prayer" begin with an "if".

I often hear, “repeat this prayer after me….” And then, “if you said that prayer you are saved”

The way it is often presented is, in fact, as an incantation for salvation.

Billy Graham came to KC in the early 2000’s (nothing against Graham, he preached the gospel)

Many students from seminary volunteered to help. I did not. One fellow I knew related to me that BG staff instructed them that if someone told them them they had already said the sinners prayer at some point in their life, they were to tell that person they were already saved. I find that shocking.

The Billy Graham Crusade (Canada) gave a report that over 90% of those that made professions of faith at these crusades never attended a church afterward…. Ever!!!

Now, Graham preached to 100’ of millions of people during his ministry and that’s a lot of people saved.

It is also a devastating amount of people with a false sense of security in their salvation.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

I often hear, “repeat this prayer after me….” And then, “if you said that prayer you are saved”

The way it is often presented is, in fact, as an incantation for salvation.

Billy Graham came to KC in the early 2000’s (nothing against Graham, he preached the gospel)

Many students from seminary volunteered to help. I did not. One fellow I knew related to me that BG staff instructed them that if someone told them them they had already said the sinners prayer at some point in their life, they were to tell that person they were already saved. I find that shocking.

The Billy Graham Crusade (Canada) gave a report that over 90% of those that made professions of faith at these crusades never attended a church afterward…. Ever!!!

Now, Graham preached to 100’ of millions of people during his ministry and that’s a lot of people saved.

It is also a devastating amount of people with a false sense of security in their salvation.

peace to you

This is the context that Graham's website provides:

The Bible says, “God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, [Jesus Christ], that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

Jesus said, “I came that they may have life and have it abundantly”—a complete life full of purpose (John 10:10).

But here’s the problem:

We have all done, thought or said bad things, which the Bible calls “sin.” The Bible says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

The result of sin is death, spiritual separation from God (Romans 6:23).

The good news?

Jesus died in our place so we could have a relationship with God and be with Him forever.

“God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

But it didn’t end with His death on the cross. He rose again and still lives!

“Christ died for our sins. … He was buried. … He was raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).

Jesus is the only way to God. Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6).

We can’t earn salvation; we are saved by God’s grace when we have faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. All you have to do is believe you are a sinner, that Christ died for your sins, and ask His forgiveness. Then turn from your sins—that’s called repentance. Jesus Christ knows you and loves you. What matters to Him is the attitude of your heart, your honesty.



Then they suggest the prayer.

I've seen Graham's preaching and he uses the "prayer" in the same context.



So the issue is not just the "sinners prayer" but whether the prayer as a summary of recognizing our sin, repenting and believing in Christ, asking Hos forgiveness negates salvation.

I do not believe it does.




But I do recognize that many will say "Lord, Lord" while not being known by Him.

I wonder, however, if the majority of these will be of a simple faith or a worked out theological camp.

 

[DaveXR650]

So the issue is not just the "sinners prayer" but whether the prayer as a summary of recognizing our sin, repenting and believing in Christ, asking Hos forgiveness negates salvation.

I do not believe it does.

In Pilgrim's Progress, Hopeful describes how he goes to Faithful and tells him of his ever increasing conviction and belief that he is lost. Faithful tells him what to do and Hopeful finally asks what he should say to God if he goes to him. Faithful then tells him to pray basically what we know as the sinner's prayer. Hopeful prays this and unfortunately nothing happens in his mind at least. In fact, he does this multiple times. Eventually, he describes how after much prayer and consternation he begins to see Christ as it were and begins to understand that Christ is indeed his savior.

What I get from that is first, there is nothing wrong with telling someone who may not have any idea that an individual person can talk to God what he should say. Secondly, there is no magic in the words themselves and the prayer has no power as an incantation. Thirdly, while all the mental gyrations and wrestling that occur are done with the conscious normal human mind, clearly, the Holy Spirit is at work and by that I mean more than just the use of the Word. At some point in time, Hopeful is born again. We can't tell exactly where. It may well be that it occurred way back and was driving Hopeful's developing of faith and repentance. But, I do know that there was nothing wrong with offering a prayer template and suggesting what one should say, at least in Bunyan's mind.