The Spurgeon that some know nothing about

[DHK]

DHK, every sermon portion, every list Iconoclast has posted, has been spot on in regards to what we believe, being Calvinists.


I have a freshly minted thread that you seem to be avoiding like the plague. Come over and let's debate it, whattya say, mon ami?

Of course he has. There are hundreds of sermons by Spurgeon. What he quoted does not negate the other sermons that Spurgeon preached. Spurgeon was not the "same Calvinist" that Icon is. That is why I quoted him, and used specific scripture like Romans 10:13 to do so. Most Calvinists would not agree with Spurgeon or use his terminology, even remotely close to it.

For example, instead of commenting on a part of this sermon:

And thou canst not perish with God's breath in thee. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved!" But the word "call" signifies a little more, it signifies trust. A man cannot call upon the name of the Lord, unless he trusts in that name. We must have reliance upon the name of Christ, or else we have not called aright. Hear me, then, poor tried sinner; thou hast come here this morning sensible of thy guilt, awakened to thy danger; here is thy remedy. Christ Jesus the Son of God, became a man; he was "born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried." He did this to save sinners such as thou art. Wilt thou believe this? Wilt thou trust thy soul to it? Wilt thou say "Sink or swim, Christ Jesus is my hope; and if I perish I will perish with my arms around his cross, crying —
if I perish I will perish with my arms around his cross, crying —

'Nothing in my hands I bring
Simply to the cross I cling?'"

Poor soul, if thou canst do that, thou wilt be saved. Come, now, no good works of thine own are needed — no sacraments, all that is asked of thee is this, and that he gives thee. Thou art nothing; wilt thou take Christ to be everything? Come, thou art black, wilt thou be washed? Wilt thou down on thy knees, and cry, "Lord, have mercy upon me, a sinner, not for anything I have done, or can do, but for his dear sake, whose blood streamed from his hands and feet, in whom alone I trust?" Why sinner the solid pillars of the universe shall totter rather than thou shouldst perish; ay heaven should weep a vacant throne, and an extinguished Godhead, rather than the promise should be violated in any case in the world. He that trusteth in Christ, calling on his name, shall be saved.

there is no discussion. He simply runs from it and finds a sermon where Spurgeon has preached on the doctrines of grace. I don't disagree that he was a Calvinist. But one at least needs to admit that Spurgeon put a heavy emphasis on salvation by faith and gave invitations to come to the Savior and trust him as Lord and Savior. This is something that most Calvinists today disagree with.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Of course he has. There are hundreds of sermons by Spurgeon. What he quoted does not negate the other sermons that Spurgeon preached. Spurgeon was not the "same Calvinist" that Icon is. That is why I quoted him, and used specific scripture like Romans 10:13 to do so. Most Calvinists would not agree with Spurgeon or use his terminology, even remotely close to it.

Look, CHS preached God's sovereignity, and man's responsibility. I tell people all the time to be reconciled to God. Man doesn't do nothing in being saved. But until God starts, they can't. It's like a brand new car. Until someone inserts the key and starts it, it will just sit there. Once God 'starts' us, we then act upon that. It's cause and effect.

For example, instead of commenting on a part of this sermon:

I completely agree with that sermon portion. I see nothing wrong with what he stated, and I'd be willing to say the same about Iconoclast.

there is no discussion. He simply runs from it and finds a sermon where Spurgeon has preached on the doctrines of grace. I don't disagree that he was a Calvinist. But one at least needs to admit that Spurgeon put a heavy emphasis on salvation by faith and gave invitations to come to the Savior and trust him as Lord and Savior. This is something that most Calvinists today disagree with.

I am sorry mon ami, but it is you who does not know what CHS preaches and how he words it. He is the most consistent Calvinist I have ever read.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK, every sermon portion, every list Iconoclast has posted, has been spot on in regards to what we believe, being Calvinists.


I have a freshly minted thread that you seem to be avoiding like the plague. Come over and let's debate it, whattya say, mon ami?

DHK has trouble when confronted with reality.The claim that Spurgeon is not a Calvinist shows he is without knowledge on this issue.
I would not highlight this except he insists on lecturing us when his content is consistently mistaken.

The main reason he like others struggles with this is he knows what we post is correct,yet it does not agree with our theology, so he must attack us.
He does this by seeking to dispute about words.......that is where you can subjectively insert any meaning you want to.....instead of what is obvious.

He probably has to read 15 Spurgeon sermons to find one phrase that he can try and twist it's meaning.
On the other hand...we can go to any Spurgeon sermon and clearly find all the 5 pt spoken about or implied.

You might wait a long time for an answer as you have methodically weeded.out the falsehoods and posted truth....good posting brother!

 

[Iconoclast]

See next post.

 

[Iconoclast]

Of course he has. There are hundreds of sermons by Spurgeon. What he quoted does not negate the other sermons that Spurgeon preached. Spurgeon was not the "same Calvinist" that Icon is. That is why I quoted him, and used specific scripture like Romans 10:13 to do so. Most Calvinists would not agree with Spurgeon or use his terminology, even remotely close to it.

For example, instead of commenting on a part of this sermon:

there is no discussion. He simply runs from it and finds a sermon where Spurgeon has preached on the doctrines of grace. I don't disagree that he was a Calvinist. But one at least needs to admit that Spurgeon put a heavy emphasis on salvation by faith and gave invitations to come to the Savior and trust him as Lord and Savior. This is something that most Calvinists today disagree with.

I did not run from anything . Spurgeon always urged sinners to flee to Christ as do all Calvinist sermons......the preaching of Christ crucified is the "invitation ".
That is why there is no need for walking the aisle or raising the hand with every eye closed.

You claim Calvinists do not like this kind of preaching which is laughable. I own all of Spurgeon sermons and his study notes in hardcover.....and I have all his works on disc for also,that is why I know you are clueless about his sermons and beliefs. :laugh:

I laugh because you think you can fool people but in reality it is sad.on days when I do not have to drive long hours....I guarantee I speak to more people about the gospel and urge them to consider where they stand before God than you do in a week, yet you accuse me of lack of evangelism or presenting the cross.....that is why I laugh at your misguided attempts.

This sermon is fine....I agree with all of it as does any Christian.....you on the other hand will avoid all I quote that directly contrasts your ideas with the truth Spurgeon taught.

Spurgeon taught almost exactly what I believe and post on here everyday.:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

I did not run from anything . Spurgeon always urged sinners to flee to Christ as do all Calvinist sermons......the preaching of Christ crucified is the "invitation ".
That is why there is no need for walking the aisle or raising the hand with every eye closed.

You claim Calvinists do not like this kind of preaching which is laughable. I own all of Spurgeon sermons and his study notes in hardcover.....and I have all his works on disc for also,that is why I know you are clueless about his sermons and beliefs. :laugh:

I laugh because you think you can fool people but in reality it is sad.on days when I do not have to drive long hours....I guarantee I speak to more people about the gospel and urge them to consider where they stand before God than you do in a week, yet you accuse me of lack of evangelism or presenting the cross.....that is why I laugh at your misguided attempts.

This sermon is fine....I agree with all of it as does any Christian.....you on the other hand will avoid all I quote that directly contrasts your ideas with the truth Spurgeon taught.

Spurgeon taught almost exactly what I believe and post on here everyday.:thumbs:

Did he? Let's examine it from the sermon on the first page "Examine yourselves..."

But go a little deeper. Hast thou ever wept over thy lost condition? Hast thou ever bemoaned thy lost estate before God? Say, hast thou ever tried to save thyself, and found it a failure? and hast thou been driven to rely simply, wholly, and entirely on Christ? If so, then thou hast passed the test well enough. And hast thou now faith in Christ—a faith that makes thee love him; a faith that enables thee to trust him in the darkest hour? Canst thou say of a truth that thou hast a secret affection towards the Most High—that thou lovest his Son, that thy desire is after his ways, that thou feelest the influence of the Divine Spirit, and seekest every day to experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit more and more?

"Have you ever wept over your lost condition?"
According to the typical BB Calvinist the reprobate sinner cannot weep over his lost condition. He is in a state of rebellion against God and cannot seek God. To say this in his condition of "Total Inability" is contrary to the T of TULIP. Why would he weep over a condition he doesn't realize he has? He is not "lost;" he is in "rebellion," Both he and I know there is a difference.

Hast thou ever bemoaned thy lost estate before God?
It is ludicrous, according to the BB Calvinist, to ask the unregenerate to "bemoan his lost estate before God." Before he could ever do such a thing he must be regenerated first. Spurgeon was addressing the "unconverted" or unregenerated. He is telling them to "bemoan their lost estate." How can they do that (according to Calvinism) if they are so dead in sin that they cannot even respond to God. You don't believe that is possible. Why are you saying it is possible now? just because Spurgeon says it?? That's a dumb reason!! He isn't God; I hope you realize this. His writings aren't scripture.

Say, hast thou ever tried to save thyself, and found it a failure?
--Spurgeon writes as if this is a necessary thing to do. One should try and save themselves and see the result for themselves. Only then will they realize that putting their faith in themselves is wrong, but rather their faith needs to put in Christ, the one that can save them, and will not fail to do so.

hast thou been driven to rely simply, wholly, and entirely on Christ?
--Following the last statement, one cannot save himself and thus puts his faith entirely on Christ. He is driven to rely (trust, believe, have faith in) Christ.
But you don't believe in that. You believe that regeneration is all of God and not of man--monergism. Spurgeon is a synegist, as he describes salvation here. The unregenerate must put faith in Christ. Read the entire sermon. He is telling the unregenrate to put his faith in Christ (synergism). He is telling that one who is dead in sin (total inability) to do something you say he cannot do because he is dead.
This contradicts so much of your theology you should run from Spurgeon.

If so, then thou hast passed the test well enough. And hast thou now faith in Christ—
Now that you have trusted Christ, relied on Christ, initially put your faith in Him, and have faith in Christ--

a faith that makes thee love him; a faith that enables thee to trust him in the darkest hour? Canst thou say of a truth that thou hast a secret affection towards the Most High
--It is this faith that enables you to trust him even in dark hours.

that thou lovest his Son, that thy desire is after his ways, that thou feelest the influence of the Divine Spirit, and seekest every day to experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit more and more?
Now he has put his faith in Christ, he is saved. He seeks every day to experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit more and more.

There is not much here for the BB Calvinist to agree with.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

The unregenerate was able to seek God out, in spite of his own sinful condition; to call upon him in spite of his own sinful condition; to understand the gospel in spite of his own sinful condition, and put his faith in Christ in order to be saved.
None of the above do most Calvinists here believe.

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists believe it all. You do not understand that if you are posting this as you do ....

SG gets it....Rippon gets it......almost everyone gets it.

You can get it also as soon as you lay down your hateful agenda....and take time to read carefully what is offered to you.......jn 6 and heb2 go a long way to make it plain and clear..

Many who think they are not Calvinist actually are.....they are just poorly instructed or in some cases someone like you or Skandelon thinks you know better than all others...reformers, puritans....and many good men in our day......Even John MacArthur nails it solidly....you reject him also....consider your ways.
.....

 

[SovereignGrace]

Did he? Let's examine it from the sermon on the first page "Examine yourselves..."

"Have you ever wept over your lost condition?"
According to the typical BB Calvinist the reprobate sinner cannot weep over his lost condition. He is in a state of rebellion against God and cannot seek God. To say this in his condition of "Total Inability" is contrary to the T of TULIP. Why would he weep over a condition he doesn't realize he has? He is not "lost;" he is in "rebellion," Both he and I know there is a difference.

Hast thou ever bemoaned thy lost estate before God?
It is ludicrous, according to the BB Calvinist, to ask the unregenerate to "bemoan his lost estate before God." Before he could ever do such a thing he must be regenerated first. Spurgeon was addressing the "unconverted" or unregenerated. He is telling them to "bemoan their lost estate." How can they do that (according to Calvinism) if they are so dead in sin that they cannot even respond to God. You don't believe that is possible. Why are you saying it is possible now? just because Spurgeon says it?? That's a dumb reason!! He isn't God; I hope you realize this. His writings aren't scripture.

Say, hast thou ever tried to save thyself, and found it a failure?
--Spurgeon writes as if this is a necessary thing to do. One should try and save themselves and see the result for themselves. Only then will they realize that putting their faith in themselves is wrong, but rather their faith needs to put in Christ, the one that can save them, and will not fail to do so.

hast thou been driven to rely simply, wholly, and entirely on Christ?
--Following the last statement, one cannot save himself and thus puts his faith entirely on Christ. He is driven to rely (trust, believe, have faith in) Christ.
But you don't believe in that. You believe that regeneration is all of God and not of man--monergism. Spurgeon is a synegist, as he describes salvation here. The unregenerate must put faith in Christ. Read the entire sermon. He is telling the unregenrate to put his faith in Christ (synergism). He is telling that one who is dead in sin (total inability) to do something you say he cannot do because he is dead.
This contradicts so much of your theology you should run from Spurgeon.

If so, then thou hast passed the test well enough. And hast thou now faith in Christ—
Now that you have trusted Christ, relied on Christ, initially put your faith in Him, and have faith in Christ--

a faith that makes thee love him; a faith that enables thee to trust him in the darkest hour? Canst thou say of a truth that thou hast a secret affection towards the Most High
--It is this faith that enables you to trust him even in dark hours.

that thou lovest his Son, that thy desire is after his ways, that thou feelest the influence of the Divine Spirit, and seekest every day to experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit more and more?
Now he has put his faith in Christ, he is saved. He seeks every day to experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit more and more.

There is not much here for the BB Calvinist to agree with.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

The unregenerate was able to seek God out, in spite of his own sinful condition; to call upon him in spite of his own sinful condition; to understand the gospel in spite of his own sinful condition, and put his faith in Christ in order to be saved.
None of the above do most Calvinists here believe.

Again, CHS was consistent in his preaching. You just fail to grasp it due to your hatred of all things contained in calvinism.

 

[SovereignGrace]

DHK has trouble when confronted with reality.The claim that Spurgeon is not a Calvinist shows he is without knowledge on this issue.
I would not highlight this except he insists on lecturing us when his content is consistently mistaken.

The main reason he like others struggles with this is he knows what we post is correct,yet it does not agree with our theology, so he must attack us.
He does this by seeking to dispute about words.......that is where you can subjectively insert any meaning you want to.....instead of what is obvious.

He probably has to read 15 Spurgeon sermons to find one phrase that he can try and twist it's meaning.
On the other hand...we can go to any Spurgeon sermon and clearly find all the 5 pt spoken about or implied.

You might wait a long time for an answer as you have methodically weeded.out the falsehoods and posted truth....good posting brother!

Thank you for the encouraging words mon ami. We just need to be patient with DHK. Maybe he will grasp it, maybe he will not.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thank you for the encouraging words mon ami. We just need to be patient with DHK. Maybe he will grasp it, maybe he will not.

You are more graceful then I am in regards to him.I get under his skin so he will not really listen to me that much ....we have other issues we clash on....in fact that list is growing better than my garden:laugh::laugh:

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are more graceful then I am in regards to him.I get under his skin so he will not really listen to me that much ....we have other issues we clash on....in fact that list is growing better than my garden:laugh::laugh:

A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.[Pro. 15:1]

Granted, I have not always done this. I have had my bouts with my flesh.

 

[Iconoclast]

But again, he that turneth not at the rebuke of the minister shall die, and he shall die certainly.

This is not a matter of perhaps or chance.

The things we preach, and that are taught in Scripture, are matters of solemn certainty.

It may be that death is that bourne from which no traveller returns, but it is not true that we know nothing of it.

It is as certain as that there are men, and a world in which they live, that there is another world to come, and that if they die impenitent, that world will be to them one of misery. And mark you—there is no chance of escape, die without Christ, and there is no gate out of which you can escape—forever, oh, forever lost, and not one hope of mercy—cast away, and not one outlet for escape, not one solitary chance of ransom. Oh, if there were hope that in the world to come, men might escape, we need not be so earnest; but since once lost, lost for aye—once cast away, cast away without hope, without any prospect of a hope, we must be earnest.


Then let each one ask himself—Am I prepared, should I be called to die? Yes, you may die where you are, on the benches where you are sitting—you may now die—and whither would you go?

" Am I prepared? Am I prepared? Am I prepared? For, prepared or not, death admits of no delay, and if he is at my door, he will take me where I must go forever, prepared or not.

Even when urging sinners to repent he was quite open and honest with them.

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0165.htm

 

[Iconoclast]

Now, that is what I desire for Christ's Church, and what every Christian will desire. We wish Christ's church to be as large as possible. God forbid that by any of our winnowing, we should ever cast away one of the precious sons of Zion.

When we rebuke sharply, we would be anxious lest the rebuke should fall where it is not needed, and should bruise and hurt the feelings of any who God hath chosen. But on the other hand, we have no wish to see the church multiplied at the expense of its purity.


We do not wish to have a charity so large that it takes in chaff as well as wheat: we wish to be just charitable enough to use the fan thoroughly to purge God's floor, but yet charitable enough to pick up the most shrivelled ear of wheat, to preserve it for the Master's sake, who is the husbandman. I trust, in preaching this morning,

God may help me so to discern between the precious and the vile that I may say nothing uncharitable, which would cut off any of God's people from being part of his true and living and visible church; and yet at the same time I pray that I may not speak so loosely, and so without God's direction, as to embrace any in the arms of Christian affection whom the Lord hath not received in the eternal covenant of his love.


Our text suggests to us three things: first, an inquiry—Have we the Spirit?

secondly, a caution—if we have not the spirit we are sensual;


thirdly, a suspicion—there are many persons that separate themselves. Our suspicion concerning them is, that notwithstanding their extra-superfine profession, they are sensual, not having the Spirit; for our text says, "These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit."

It is as miraculous a change as any miracle of which we read in Scripture. It is supremely supernatural.

It may be mimicked, but no imitation of it can be true and real.

Men may pretend to be regenerated without the Spirit, but regenerated they cannot be.

It is a change so marvellous that the highest attempts of man can never reach it.

We may reason as long as we please, but we cannot reason ourselves into regeneration; we may meditate till our hairs are grey with study; but we cannot meditate ourselves into the new birth. That is worked in us by the sovereign will of God alone.

Have you felt him at work in your spirits, comforting you, anointing your head, making you glad, and causing you to rejoice?
There are many people that never felt this. They hope they are religious; but their religion never makes them happy. There are scores of professors who have just enough religion to make them miserable. Let them be afraid that they have any religion at all; for religion makes people happy; when it has its full sway with man it makes him glad. It may begin in agony, but it does not end there. Say, hast thou ever had thine heart leaping for joy? Hath thy lip ever warbled songs of ecstatic praise? Doth thine eye ever flash the fire of joy? If these things be not so, I fear lest thou art still without God, and without Christ; for where the Spirit comes, his fruits are, joy in the Spirit, and peace, and love, and confidence, and assurance for ever.


I am persuaded, sir, there are a great many people in the church that ought not to be there; and so I, because there is such a corrupt mixture in the church, have determined not to join anywhere at all. I do not think that the Church of Christ now a days is at all clean and pure enough to allow of my joining with it. At least, sir, I did join a church once, but I made such a deal of noise in it they were very glad when I went away.

But I am quite sure I am one of God's special elect. I don't join any church because a church is not good enough for me; I don't become a member of any denomination, because they are all wrong, every one of them." Hark ye brother, I have something to tell you, that will not please you. "These be they that separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit." I hope you enjoy the text: it certainly belongs to you, above every man in the world. "These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit." When I read this over I thought to myself, there be some who say, "Well, you are a dissenter, how do you make this agreeable with the text, 'These be they who separate themselves;' "

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0167.htm

 

[DHK]

And yet to the unconverted he preached:

"Oh God thou saidst, he that calleth upon thy name shall be saved; I did call; wilt thou cast me away? I did plead thy promise; I did lift up my heart in prayer; canst thou be just, and yet damn the man who did really pray?" But mark that sweet thought: prayer is the certain forerunner of salvation. Sinner, thou canst not pray and perish; prayer and perishing are two things that never go together. I ask you not what your prayer is; it may be a groan, it may be a tear, a wordless prayer, or a prayer in broken English, ungrammatical and harsh to the ear: but if it be a prayer from the inmost heart, thou shalt be saved; or else this promise is a lie. As surely as thou prayest whoever thou mayest be whatever thy past life, whatever the transgressions in which thou hast indulged, though they be the foulest which pollute mankind, yet if from thine heart thou hast learned to pray —

And thou canst not perish with God's breath in thee. "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved!" But the word "call" signifies a little more, it signifies trust. A man cannot call upon the name of the Lord, unless he trusts in that name. We must have reliance upon the name of Christ, or else we have not called aright. Hear me, then, poor tried sinner; thou hast come here this morning sensible of thy guilt, awakened to thy danger; here is thy remedy. Christ Jesus the Son of God, became a man; he was "born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried." He did this to save sinners such as thou art. Wilt thou believe this? Wilt thou trust thy soul to it? Wilt thou say "Sink or swim, Christ Jesus is my hope; and if I perish I will perish with my arms around his cross, crying —
if I perish I will perish with my arms around his cross, crying —

'Nothing in my hands I bring
Simply to the cross I cling?'"

Poor soul, if thou canst do that, thou wilt be saved. Come, now, no good works of thine own are needed — no sacraments, all that is asked of thee is this, and that he gives thee. Thou art nothing; wilt thou take Christ to be everything? Come, thou art black, wilt thou be washed? Wilt thou down on thy knees, and cry, "Lord, have mercy upon me, a sinner, not for anything I have done, or can do, but for his dear sake, whose blood streamed from his hands and feet, in whom alone I trust?" Why sinner the solid pillars of the universe shall totter rather than thou shouldst perish; ay heaven should weep a vacant throne, and an extinguished Godhead, rather than the promise should be violated in any case in the world. He that trusteth in Christ, calling on his name, shall be saved.

No predestination of the wicked; no reprobation here.

 

[Iconoclast]

Christ, the name given to our Lord, is an expressive word; it means "Anointed One," and indicates that he was sent upon a divine errand, commissioned by supreme authority. The Lord Jehovah said of old, "I have laid help upon one that is mighty, I have exalted one chosen out of the people"; and again, "I have given him as a covenant to the people, a leader and commander to the people." Jesus was both set apart to this work, and qualified for it by the anointing of the Holy Ghost. He is no unauthorised saviour, no amateur deliverer, but an ambassador clothed with unbounded power from the great King, a Redeemer with full credentials from the Father. It is this ordained and appointed Saviour who has "died for the ungodly." Remember this, ye ungodly! Consider well who it was that came to lay down his life for such as you are.

 

[Iconoclast]

And yet to the unconverted he preached:


No predestination of the wicked; no reprobation here.

Pedestination is used in a positive sense in regards to the salvation and sanctification of the elect.

9 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

No predestination of the wicked; no reprobation here

.

Again....every sermon does not have to cover every possible topic.

Hey DHK....notice these portions I highlight are the same exact things I have posted in the last few years.....Identical in fact!




I do not think you understand reprobation although you keep using the word.

 

[Iconoclast]

on depravity;

II. Now Secondly, we are called upon to notice the universality of this evil. What a broad assertion it is. It is not a single carnal mind, or a certain class of characters, but "the carnal mind." It is an unqualified statement, including every individual.



Whatever mind may properly be called carnal, not having been spiritualized by the power of God's Holy Ghost, is "enmity against God."


Observe then, first of all, the universality of this as to all persons. Every carnal mind in the world is at enmity against God. This does not exclude even infants at the mothers' breast. We call them innocent, and so they are of actual transgression, but as the poet says, "Within the youngest breast there lies a stone." There is in the carnal mind of an infant, enmity against God; it is not developed, but it lieth there.

Some say that children learn sin by imitation. But no; take a child away, place it under the most pious influences, let the very air it breathes be purified by piety; let it constantly drink in draughts of holiness; let it hear nothing but the voice of prayer and praise; let its ear be always kept in tune by notes of sacred song; and that child, notwithstanding, may still become one of the grossest of transgressors; and though placed apparently on the very road to heaven, it shall, if not directed by divine grace, march downwards to the pit. Oh! how true it is that some who have had the best of parents, have been the worst of sons; that many who have been trained up under the most holy auspices, in the midst of the most favorable scenes for piety, have nevertheless, become loose and wanton! So it is not by imitation, but it is by nature, that the child is evil.


We know that young lions, when tamed and domesticated, still will have the wild nature of their fellows of the forest, and were liberty given them, would prey as fiercely as others. So with the child; you may bind him with the green withes of education, you may do what you will with him, since you cannot change his heart, that carnal mind shall still be at enmity against God; and notwithstanding intellect, talent, and all you may give to boot, i


http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0020.htm


There be others of acute intellect, who, searching into mysteries of science, discover things that have been hidden from the creation of the world; men of keen research, and mighty erudition; and yet of each of these—poet, philosopher, metaphysician, and great discoverer—it shall be said, "The carnal mind is enmity against God." Ye may train him up, ye may make his intellect almost angelic, ye may strengthen his soul until he shall take what are riddles to us, and unravel them with his fingers in a moment; ye may make him so mighty, that he can grasp the iron secrets of the eternal hills and grind them to atoms in his fist; ye may give him an eye so keen, that he can penetrate the arcana of rocks and mountains; ye may add a soul so potent, that he may slay the giant Sphinx, that had for ages troubled the mightiest men of learning; yet, when ye have done all, his mind shall be a depraved one, and his carnal heart shall still be in opposition to God. Yea, more, ye shall bring him to the house of prayer;

ye shall make him sit constantly under the clearest preaching of the word, where he shall hear the doctrines of grace in all their purity, attended by a holy unction; but if that holy unction does not rest upon him, all shall be vain; he shall still come most regularly, but, like the pious door of the chapel, that turneth in and out, he shall still be the same; having an outside superficial religion, and his carnal mind shall still be at enmity against God.


Now, this is not my assertion, it is the declaration of God's word, and you must leave it if you do not believe it; but quarrel not with me, it is my Master's message; and it is true of every one of you—men, women, and children, and myself too—that if we have not been regenerated and converted, if we have not experienced a change of heart, our carnal mind is still at enmity against God.

 

[DHK]

Hey DHK....notice these portions I highlight are the same exact things I have posted in the last few years.....Identical in fact!

I do not think you understand reprobation although you keep using the word.

You simply can't deal with the portion I posted. It goes directly contrary to what you believe. You won't admit it. Therefore you run to other sermons, other definitions, etc. You are afraid to touch some of the statements that Spurgeon made in that particular sermon and why he made them? Why?

 

[Iconoclast]

You simply can't deal with the portion I posted. It goes directly contrary to what you believe. You won't admit it. Therefore you run to other sermons, other definitions, etc. You are afraid to touch some of the statements that Spurgeon made in that particular sermon and why he made them? Why?

Because I believe exactly as Spurgeon does...why should I comment on what i agree with.

here on BB if you notice I mostly do not comment where I agree with the person or the link....I post against the error:wavey::wavey:


You said Spurgeon believed different than me, but that was a falsehood...this thread shows that to everyone except you.

 

[DHK]

[/B]


Because I believe exactly as Spurgeon does...why should I comment on what i agree with.

here on BB if you notice I mostly do not comment where I agree with the person or the link....I post against the error:wavey::wavey:


You said Spurgeon believed different than me, but that was a falsehood...this thread shows that to everyone except you.

Then back up your own words. Take the statements, particularly the ones that I bolded in the last quote I posted from Spurgeon, and show how you agree with those statements.

I did plead thy promise; I did lift up my heart in prayer; canst thou be just, and yet damn the man who did really pray?" But mark that sweet thought: prayer is the certain forerunner of salvation. Sinner, thou canst not pray and perish; prayer and perishing are two things that never go together.

He was speaking to the unconverted.