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The Star of Bethlehem

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thisnumbersdisconnected

New Member
Alcott said:
"Ground point of a star"

Consider this simple math... Bethelehem is about 32 degrees north latitude. The circumference of the earth is 24,901 miles at the equator, so going by proportions, at Bethelehem the circumference is approx. 16047 miles [32/90 * 24901]. Since the earth rotates once every 24 hours, a 'ground point' is actually a line, per se, that covers 669 miles [16047/24] each hour, 11.14 miles each minute, or one mile every 5 1/3 second. And you're claiming these wise guys could actually 'follow' a star, taking precise fixes on its position, covering a miles every 5 seconds, until they fixed its position to within about 50 feet on that line which happened to be a house with a young child?
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You ever here of this thing mariners call "navigation"? Polynesian and Micronesian sailors did it the best and were able to successfully navigate thousands of miles of open sea to arrive at their destinations. Very often, these were small lumps of land, or clusters of islands, that could be very easily missed. Many times, of course they did miss, and nothing more was ever heard of those unfortunates.

However, when you consider that all they had to guide them were the stars and a mind map of them, this form of navigation was amazing in its skill. Good navigators were revered. They developed what is referred to as a ‘Star Compass’ or ‘Star Map’, and this was retained in the navigators head. To know all those stars and maintain a course for thousands of miles according to the stars’ position in the night sky, required a consummate skill and a mighty store of knowledge.

And you don't think the astronomers/astrologers from the east knew how to do much the same thing on land? How do you think the world got populated, anyway?
 
K

ktn4eg

New Member
Not that it has anything specific to the OP, but as a child growing up in SE Pennsylvania (abt 25 mi NW of Philly) back in the 1950's, we'd always travel to my uncle's "cabin" up in the Pocono Mts. of NE PA on the weekend before Christmas.

About half the way along the journey, we'd pass by the city of Bethlehem, PA [former home of Bethlehem Steel Co., STILL the location of Lehigh Univ.]. On the southern edge of the city is a large mountain (South Mtn.) Atop the mountain they had constructed a very large steel framed outline of a star that remained lit at night.

So, yes, we DID see the "Star of Bethlehem" for many years. :thumbsup:

(More info on this star can be found at Wikipedia's entry for "Bethlehem, PA.")
 
P

preacher4truth

Active Member
I've watched this on youtube and very much enjoyed it.

I was interested in the 'starry night' software that he used and then I wondered if a person could use that same software and go back to 70 a.d. and see anything that Flavius Josephus saw (allegedly something in the sky that resembled a sword which was to be the sign of the Son of man if I recollect) and, was what he saw purely supernatural or some sort of comet, or, was it a constellation that would show up on such software? Just some thoughts.
 
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Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
John of Japan said:
I am wondering whether you've read my posts carefully. I've quoted no scholar who doubted the historicity of Matthew, nor would I knowingly do so.

Edited in: Okay, I see you are talking about the article I linked to. I didn't quote that scholar, but only saw what was said about the supposed astrological term of Molnar. I would not have linked to the article had I known it doubted the historicity of Matthew.

I not only believe Matthew was attempting to be historically accurate, I believe the Holy Spirit superintending him as he wrote his Gospel guaranteed his accuracy.

I think you have mentioned a key point, that Matthew's 1st century Jewish audience (the Pharisees at least) would have rejected astrology as pagan. ISBE (the original edition) points out in the "Astrology" article that the Jews' besetting sin was worship of the planets, and that, for example, Moloch worship was Saturn worship, for example.

Again, in Acts 14, they attempted to worship Paul as Jupiter. So does it make sense that God would have used the planet Jupiter to show the way to His Son? "Inconceivable," to quote "The Princess Bride."

Being a linguist, I feel the evidence from the Greek grammar and from the writings of Irenaeus (a student of Polycarp, a convert of the Apostle John's) is conclusive that it was a miracle. We'll have to agree to disagree.
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weren't the magi more of a priestly/schorly l;ine in persia, who were probably influenced greatly by Daniel and the jewish remnant in that region in OT times?

they would know of the OT prophecies of messiah tocome, so not strict astrolgers as we see them today?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
I believe it was most likely a very bright comet. They can be visible in the sky for months, and they move.

I cannot explain how a comet would stand over a house, but perhaps the tail was pointing straight up in the sky which gave it the appearance of being over the house.



As you see here, a comet could be in a position where it appears to point to a house or other object on the horizon.

My 2 cents
 
S

saturneptune

New Member
Winman said:
I believe it was most likely a very bright comet. They can be visible in the sky for months, and they move.

I cannot explain how a comet would stand over a house, but perhaps the tail was pointing straight up in the sky which gave it the appearance of being over the house.



As you see here, a comet could be in a position where it appears to point to a house or other object on the horizon.

My 2 cents
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That is a beautiful picture of a comet. While it is possible the Lord could have used a comet of a conjunction of planets, I believe, IMO, it was a unique, single event miracle of the Lord in the heavens. I have observed many objects in the skies, and have never seen a celestial object move as described in Matthew 2: 9-12.

Unique signs are given for unique events in the Bible. The Star signaled His birth. At his death, the sky was darkened for three hours. The vale in the temple was ripped, along with an earthquake. I do not believe one can explain the darkness by any known phenomena. Since God is the Creator, these events are not a big problem for Him. It is my belief He uses special signs for special events, such as the birth and death of His Son.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Would like to point out that the language in all the discussions is geocentric, and no one batted an eye. In fact, describing this in heliocentric terms would have been complicated, cumbersome and confusing.
 
JonShaff

JonShaff

Fellow Servant
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
Nice thing to visit again.

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Got got a personal copy from Barry and Helen, started to watch it...hadn't finished. Very interesting to say the least.

Edit, this isn't the same one I have...seems neat tho
 
J

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Have not read this entire thread, but J of J and BB echo my sentiments. All the "scientific" reasoning would suit to a point, but it loses common sense when, assuming one accepts the Word as true as stated, the star STOPS over one particular house!
Pick any star and have four seperate people (one mile distance, creating a square maybe) measuring the angle of that star from their position simultaneously and the difference would be "0" (except for the curvature of the earth), so to claim that the star is "over" any particular house in a one square mile area is illogical.
Ergo, IMHO, it was A star that beamed it's light (a'la a flashlight) on one particular/precise/exact house that just happened to contain the Christ Child.
I may be completely wrong, but until science can prove a conjuction can mimic the star's activity, I'll accept His word, and accept the scenario as a miracle!!
 
A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
just-want-peace said:
Have not read this entire thread, but J of J and BB echo my sentiments. All the "scientific" reasoning would suit to a point, but it loses common sense when, assuming one accepts the Word as true as stated, the star STOPS over one particular house!
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That's not what the scripture says.
 
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