The Supposed Errors in the KJV

[atpollard]

#1 The ones that are in blue and underlined testifies that not even His groanings can be uttered and yet the others ones in black says He can utter groanings.

#2 In all John 16:13, His word testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot speak FROM Himself but speak what He hears. That means all the words He is speaking is from Another and the authority is from Another.

Thank you for the clarification of your view.

You are splitting a semantic hair WAY too fine for my taste (can the unspoken, wordless groanings of the Holy Spirit be heard?)

However, NONE of those verses support a private "tongues language", so on that point we are in complete agreement (and I am a continuationist rather than a cessationist, but what people CALL tongues isn't what the Bible calls tongues.)

 

[Hark]

I spotted a KJV error:

• Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
• John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Holy Spirit, third person of the Godhead, is not an "it" (Romans 8:26); the Holy Spirit is a "he" (John 16:13) ... or even "He".

It is not an error when you consider it with Romans 8:27. You have to discern with Him why itself was used when "himself" & "he" & "him" was used in regards to the Holy Spirit elsewhere in the KJV & not just in that very same Book of Romans..

The reason why "itself" was used because the Holy Spirit really isn't making these intercessions from Himself as if He can utter them. Verse 27 is testifying to the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit as the One making the Spirit's silent intercessions known to the Father which is in according to the will of God of there being only One mediator between God & man, specified as the man Christ Jesus ( 1 Timothy 2:5, at that throne of grace & not the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews 4:12-16 verifies this is rightly dividing the word of truth because the "he" that searches our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit, is the Word of God aka the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the will of the Father because the Father is ONLY glorified in the Son for answers to prayers for why He is to be given thanks in Jesus's name. John 14:13-14

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. KJV

Ephesians 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; KJV

So itself is testifying to the mind of the Holy Spirit serving as a means by how His intercessions are known to the Father and that is by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit as it is the Son that gives the unspoken intercessions to God the Father for Him... so the Holy Spirit is not really doing this by Himself.

 

[Hark]

Thank you for the clarification of your view.

You are splitting a semantic hair WAY too fine for my taste (can the unspoken, wordless groanings of the Holy Spirit be heard?)

Either His groanings can be uttered or His groanings cannot even be uttered. Wordless groans implied groans are being heard but are not in words in expressing those groanings.

However, NONE of those verses support a private "tongues language",

John 16:13 does not support tongues for private use in all Bible versions, but modern day tongue speakers has used some of the modern bibles of Romans 8:26 to say that He does. If you know a modern day tongue speaker, ask them what Romans 8:26-27 mean and what Bible version they are using too. You may be surprised at some of the answers they give you. And you may have a hard time trying to prove otherwise when those modern bibles can sow doubts in His words about John 16:13 by the errant translation of Romans 8:26 when it says wordless groans as if groans can be heard. So they will doubt John 16:13 really meant what He said, especially when they are being led by a supernatural tongue that they want to believe is God's gift of tongues but for private use because there is no interpretation... thus failing to test the spirits & the tongues they bring

so on that point we are in complete agreement (and I am a continuationist rather than a cessationist, but what people CALL tongues isn't what the Bible calls tongues.)

I am not a cessationist either since the other gifts of the Spirit are still needed in ministry like discerning of spirits. The problem here is that there are many modern day tongue speakers thinking they have the real God's gift of tongues by those who interpret it because they are winging the interpretation. Joyce Meyers says she interpret tongues by getting the gist or feeling of what is spoken. A church hired a linguist to record and translate all the different tongues & the interpretation being given there and it was all gibberish nonsense and not any language of man at all.

Most modern day tongue speakers can identify their tongue with a phenomenon of what they believe was the Holy Spirit coming over them later in life in bringing that tongue of gibberish nonsense. A former neighbor across the street testified that one time she was reading her Bible in the kitchen when she felt the Holy Spirit come over her & she spoke in tongues. She said that moment was when she was saved. I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant. Then it donned on her as she continued her testimony that she had asked the pastor at her church what had happened because she was a believer all her life. She said the pastor pointed her to the Book of Acts. I did not inquire further so I can only guess it was about how the disciples were waiting around until Pentecost doing everyday things as she went on to display disbelief ( rolling her eyes while she told me this ) when others shared their similar experience in doing everyday things, but in general reference and not in detail which she seem to conveyed she did not want to share with me. But anyway, it is testimonies like her is why people believe the lie that they have to speak in tongues or they do not have the Holy Spirit & they are not saved. My former neighbor would disagree with that but unwittingly, she just gave her testimony to me that would support that heresy and she would have a hard time stopping them from using her testimony.

Anyway, discernment is needed because even those who claim they have the real God's gift of tongues, the interpreters may be winging it as some have done. With the scripture available for our edification; & with that apostasy of thinking one can receive the Holy Spirit again by the sign of tongues is known to be related to that modern day tongue, it is time to get our edification from scripture for which I have come to rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Van]

You think. In spite of the fact SNIP

Denial of the obvious is the hallmark of delusion.

 

[Van]

Not when it was translated as Easter in English in Tyndale's Bible & Easter in German in Martin Luther's Bible. Not a goof.

Just because the KJ translators accepted the mistranslation of another does not make it any less a mistranslation.

 

[Van]

Not when it was translated as Easter in English in Tyndale's Bible & Easter in German in Martin Luther's Bible. Not a goof.

Why post this nonsense. Two or three wrongs do not make a right. Good Golly...

 

[Van]

Since there were no commas in scripture, you are leaving out the teaching of the Holy Spirit to see that the truth is the same regardless of the comma by any rules of mankind.

Note the complete absence of rational thought? The idea of the inspired text was mistranslated by the KJV. Full Stop

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you for the clarification of your view.

You are splitting a semantic hair WAY too fine for my taste (can the unspoken, wordless groanings of the Holy Spirit be heard?)

However, NONE of those verses support a private "tongues language", so on that point we are in complete agreement (and I am a continuationist rather than a cessationist, but what people CALL tongues isn't what the Bible calls tongues.)

Think that if the Holy Spirit still gave out the gift of tongues, would be real languages unknown/not learned by the speaker!
Would not be repeating really fast "see my tie"

 

[Yeshua1]

It is not an error when you consider it with Romans 8:27. You have to discern with Him why itself was used when "himself" & "he" & "him" was used in regards to the Holy Spirit elsewhere in the KJV & not just in that very same Book of Romans..

The reason why "itself" was used because the Holy Spirit really isn't making these intercessions from Himself as if He can utter them. Verse 27 is testifying to the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit as the One making the Spirit's silent intercessions known to the Father which is in according to the will of God of there being only One mediator between God & man, specified as the man Christ Jesus ( 1 Timothy 2:5, at that throne of grace & not the Spirit of Christ.

Hebrews 4:12-16 verifies this is rightly dividing the word of truth because the "he" that searches our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit, is the Word of God aka the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the will of the Father because the Father is ONLY glorified in the Son for answers to prayers for why He is to be given thanks in Jesus's name. John 14:13-14

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. KJV

Ephesians 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; KJV

So itself is testifying to the mind of the Holy Spirit serving as a means by how His intercessions are known to the Father and that is by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit as it is the Son that gives the unspoken intercessions to God the Father for Him... so the Holy Spirit is not really doing this by Himself.

The Holy Spirit intercedes for us, as He is not a parrot, and He is the member of the trinity that abides within us right now, empowering, guiding, directing, illuminating etc!

 

[Yeshua1]

Note the complete absence of rational thought? The idea of the inspired text was mistranslated by the KJV. Full Stop

The Kjv mistranslated this , as the Spirit was , it seems, not able to understand there was the Granville Sharp rule in play here!

 

[Hark]

Anyone else wants to answer the question put to Van?

He believes Matthew 5:22-26 is NOT about saved believers because that would mean they were cast into hell, but he is wrong about them being cast into hell itself when they are being cast, as in left behind on earth when that fiery calamity comes on the earth that Jesus will send in Luke 12:40-49 for not being ready. Van is avoiding Matthew 18:21-35 when this is the same as Matthew 5:22-26 where Jesus is repeating this warning again but in more detail in that same book of Matthew.

Therefore that casting out & hell fire translated from Gehenna is not the lake of fire but the fire that is coming on the earth as Peter warned of in 2 Peter 3:3-14. Is not Gehenna as the valley of Hinnon described in Revelation 18:1-25 of the unburied bodies in the land of flames when one third of the earth is burned up ( Revelation 8:7 )?. is there not a casting out of unrepentant saints in the bed of the great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-25? Did not the fall of Babylon in Revelation 18:1-25 happened after the rapture when the 3 angels sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth? Revelation 14:1-11

So Matthew 5:22-26 is not about loss of salvation, but loss of being a part of the firstfruits of the resurrection thus left behind from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven, but will be resurrected after the great tribulation after Satan is defeated & put in the pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-6. When they die after being left behind; they are with the Lord. Revelation 7:13-17 as Paul confirms below.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. KJV

 

[Yeshua1]

Anyone else wants to answer the question put to Van?

He believes Matthew 5:22-26 is NOT about saved believers because that would mean they were cast into hell, but he is wrong about them being cast into hell itself when they are being cast, as in left behind on earth when that fiery calamity comes on the earth that Jesus will send in Luke 12:40-49 for not being ready. Van is avoiding Matthew 18:21-35 when this is the same as Matthew 5:22-26 where Jesus is repeating this warning again but in more detail in that same book of Matthew.

Therefore that casting out & hell fire translated from Gehenna is not the lake of fire but the fire that is coming on the earth as Peter warned of in 2 Peter 3:3-14. Is not Gehenna as the valley of Hinnon described in Revelation 18:1-25 of the unburied bodies in the land of flames when one third of the earth is burned up ( Revelation 8:7 )?. is there not a casting out of unrepentant saints in the bed of the great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-25? Did not the fall of Babylon in Revelation 18:1-25 happened after the rapture when the 3 angels sets up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth? Revelation 14:1-11

So Matthew 5:22-26 is not about loss of salvation, but loss of being a part of the firstfruits of the resurrection thus left behind from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven, but will be resurrected after the great tribulation after Satan is defeated & put in the pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-6. When they die after being left behind; they are with the Lord. Revelation 7:13-17 as Paul confirms below.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. KJV

Jesus saves to the extreme ALL he saves, so none will be left behind!

 

[Van]

Anyone else wants to answer the question put to Van?

He believes Matthew 5:22-26 is NOT about saved believers because that would mean they were cast into hell, but he is wrong about them being cast into hell itself when they are being cast, as in left behind on earth when that fiery calamity comes on the earth that Jesus will send in Luke 12:40-49 for not being ready. SNIP

Once again we have a poster of falsehood claiming to be a mindreader, telling you what I believe. Disgusting and pathetic...

And once again the "you" in Matthew 5:22 is identified in Matthew 5:23, and therefore the you is addressing unsaved Jews who have not yet "entered the kingdom."

 

[Van]

Returning to topic, in posts #10, 11 and 12, three separate errors in the KJV translation of the Greek NT were presented. These were not "supposed errors" but actual errors that no rational argument can refute. So pay no attention to "it is not a KJV error because it came from Tyndale" or "two or more wrongs make a right," or "mistranslating Titus 2:13 is not an error because the original Greek did not contain commas."

 

[Hark]

Once again we have a poster of falsehood claiming to be a mindreader, telling you what I believe. Disgusting and pathetic...

And once again the "you" in Matthew 5:22 is identified in Matthew 5:23, and therefore the you is addressing unsaved Jews who have not yet "entered the kingdom."

Were not His disciples there too?

Matthew 5:1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, KJV

So "you" was also addressing His disciples & not just the multitude. The Sermon on the Mount are for believers in understanding something new is coming and what all entails with the Good News with the coming kingdom of heaven & the consequences thereof for how one becomes the least in the kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 5:19.

So Matthew 5:22-26 is a summary of what Jesus is talking about in detail later on in Matthew 18:21-35

So prison can be that place for the souls coming out of the great tribulation under the altar but still in Heaven. Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:13-17 as the saints were slain as found in Babylon Revelation 18:1-25 after the rapture & after the everlasting gospel is preached everywhere before the end comes Matthew 24:14 tying in with verse 6 thru 8 in Revelation 14:1-8

 

[Van]

Were not His disciples there too?
SNIP

Any rational analysis of the context of Matthew 5:22 would conclude the "you" refers to unsaved Jews.
Denial of this obvious truth points to delusion.

 

[Hark]

Any rational analysis of the context of Matthew 5:22 would conclude the "you" refers to unsaved Jews.
Denial of this obvious truth points to delusion.

The denial by you is to whom Jesus was addressing and it was not just the multitude. Therefore "you" also applies to His disciples and therefore all seekers & all believers wishing to be His disciples..

Matthew 5:1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, KJV

That is why you cannot handle the truth in Matthew 5:22-26 as given to His disciples because you think it is about being cast into the lake of fire when it is about being a castaway as in left behind on earth. When that fiery calamity comes on one third of the earth which will be the same as the fiery judgment in Deuteronomy 32:22, then hell ( Gehenna ) is valley as the lowest valley and on earth and up to the mountains. That fiery calamity in the past happened on earth & so a bigger one is coming on earth; thus another Gehenna or hell on earth; Revelation 8:7 that if saved believers are not found abiding in Him & His words, they will be cut off per John 15:6 & left behind Luke 12:40-49 to face the fire coming on the earth after the rapture.

That means they are still saved in Matthew 5:22-26 as they will pay for their lack of forgiveness & come out of that prison to be resurrected after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth in raising up the generations following.

 

[Van]

The denial by you is to SNIP.

Returning to topic, in posts #10, 11 and 12, three separate errors in the KJV translation of the Greek NT were presented. These were not "supposed errors" but actual errors that no rational argument can refute. So pay no attention to "it is not a KJV error because it came from Tyndale" or "two or more wrongs make a right," or "mistranslating Titus 2:13 is not an error because the original Greek did not contain commas."

 

[Hark]

Returning to topic, in posts #10, 11 and 12, three separate errors in the KJV translation of the Greek NT were presented. These were not "supposed errors" but actual errors that no rational argument can refute. So pay no attention to "it is not a KJV error because it came from Tyndale" or "two or more wrongs make a right," or "mistranslating Titus 2:13 is not an error because the original Greek did not contain commas."

And yet no message was changed per those so called errors. Even those who argue against KJVOnlyism will say that.

And again, assigning blame on commas per also by man made rules for the KJV use of commas for Titus 2:13, does not change the message of the verse in the KJV when originally scripture did not use commas, let alone numbered chaptered & numbered verses for there were no division of chapters.

Kind of straining at the gnat there, brother.

 

[Van]

And yet no message was changed per those so called errors. SNIP.

All three examples changed the message. Robbers of pagan temples is different from robbers of Christian churches. Acts 19:37.
The correct translation of Acts 12:4 is "passover" not "easter."
And of course the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ presents two entities, whereas our great God and Savior Jesus Christ presents Jesus as our great God.

To claim these are not errors in the KJV is to deny truth.