the "T" of the TULIP

[Wesley Briggman]

So if she were to stop living in pleasure, then she would no longer be “dead while she live there”, right?

So Paul here, in the midst of admonishing Timothy, also is telling Timothy how to admonish the widows that are not spending their time profitably. Don’t you think that means they need to repent? See vs 1 & 2.

If these are spiritually dead, it looks like they became such after believing in Christ. There goes the “P”, according to your view.

My post #145 was a scriptural response to post #124.

I am not going to speculate about the widow's spiritual condition.

I do not believe a born-again believer, sealed by the Holy Spirit, can neither lose the salvation nor would they want to!

 

[Derf B]

By your statement we would conclude that by the death of Christ all human sins were entirely paid for. Thus, we would also conclude that Jesus death made all people alive with Christ.

Do you notice that in your narrative, belief is inconsequential.

Let's take a look, once again at our verses in Ephesians 2:4-9. Notice the mechanism.

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in _the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward
us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Notice that the mechanism that God declares for salvation is... God's grace. God does all the work in saving us. He paid for his children's sins by sacrificial atonement, which cleansed us. He chose us by grace. He made us alive with Christ. He raised us with Christ and He seated us with Christ in the heavenly places. We observe this in these verses.

What do you disagree with in my observation?

God’s Grace is exhibited in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ. But you and others here are telling us that it is exhibited by an additional thing that’s required before someone believes. Thus can’t be Christ’s death, because His death doesn’t have an exclusion clause that prevents it from being effective for all, which aligns nicely with John 3:16–God so loved the whole world...

The exclusion clause comes from people not believing, which keeps them in condemnation.


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[AustinC]

God’s Grace is exhibited in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ. But you and others here are telling us that it is exhibited by an additional thing that’s required before someone believes. Thus can’t be Christ’s death, because His death doesn’t have an exclusion clause that prevents it from being effective for all, which aligns nicely with John 3:16–God so loved the whole world...

The exclusion clause comes from people not believing, which keeps them in condemnation.


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Not everyone receives that substitutionary atonement.
You have completely ignored what God tells us in Ephesians 2. I have provided the observation of what God says.

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Look at the text, Derf. Accept what the text so very clearly tells you.

 

[Derf B]

Not everyone receives that substitutionary atonement.

That’s exactly what I said! I’m glad we’re in agreement![/QUOTE]
You have completely ignored what God tells us in Ephesians 2. I have provided the observation of what God says.[/QUOTE]
Not ignored—disagreed with your interpretation. You would understand scripture better if you learn to speak and write more precisely.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
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[Dave G]

Such is a false dichotomy.

To me, it's a very accurate dichotomy.

Just because a person decides he wants God’s mercy, after God has offered it, doesn’t mean he is somehow forcing God to do something He doesn’t want.

Respectfully,
I think that you're misunderstanding the question and the subject as a whole.
God doesn't offer anything.

He makes promises, and only those to whom the promises were made are going to experience the end result.
For example, if someone truly believes on Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, it wasn't because we "took Him up on His offer".

It's because the objects of His grace received those gifts and promises from Him because of His love for them.

But you’ve confirmed for me that the real answer to this perpetual argument between Calvinists and Arminians is in discarding unsupported presuppositions—specifically the one that says God knows who is going to be saved before the people exist.

The real answer is found in God's word.

To me, when a person studies the Scriptures for themselves over a long period of time, one either continues to see salvation as an "offer" with "conditions" that need to be met before the offer can be accepted,
Or one comes to see that salvation is a completely unmerited gift, and that God saves someone apart from any "conditions"...
With God either knowing who will believe, or God's "knowing" equaling His loving them and giving them His gifts based on His completely unmerited favor upon them as His chosen children.
They then believe and trust in Him because of His working in their lives by the power of His Spirit.

There it is..
Salvation by man's efforts plus God's efforts, or salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
We are either His workmanship, created "in Christ Jesus", or we are a product of both His workmanship and ours...co-operating with Him in His work to achieve a goal...our escape from eternal punishment in Hell.

Derf,
There's way more to what God's children are than simply saved from His wrath;
They are saved to an eternal relationship with Him and His Son.
I truly hope that you come to see it, if you have not already.




May God bless you always, sir.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[AustinC]

That’s exactly what I said! I’m glad we’re in agreement!

You have completely ignored what God tells us in Ephesians 2. I have provided the observation of what God says.

Not ignored—disagreed with your interpretation. You would understand scripture better if you learn to speak and write more precisely.

Not once have you actually addressed the text. Instead, you have walked around it. Actually read it and observe what it says. This isn't rocket science. God is straight forward. Yet, you teach something different than what God says. Please acknowledge this.

 

[Salty]

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