The thief on the cross and Lot--Carnal Christians

[plain_n_simple]

Either way, Washer takes joy in accusing, revealing his own heart is like Satans, dragging who he can down with him using doubt and strengthening unbelief.

 

[blessedwife318]

Either way, Washer takes joy in accusing, revealing his own heart is like Satans, dragging who he can down with him using doubt and strengthening unbelief.

This seem a bit Ironical to me.

 

[PreachTony]

To be fair he said that if you stray without DISCIPLINE coming upon you, then you may have never been saved in the first place.

True...I'm actually more offended (though I hate to use that particular word) by Washer's claims about professions of faith and evangelism that follows the Romans method. It reminds me, in a way, of a certain BB member who ignores certain scriptures in favor of their own closely-held doctrine, regardless how right or wrong that doctrine is.

We have to remember that, if one of our brethren is overtaken in a fault, it is incumbent on us to pick up our brother and help him, bearing one another's burdens, and fulfilling the law of Christ. Nowhere in that scripture do I see a command to question the salvation of someone who doesn't agree with every facet of your doctrine.

 

[blessedwife318]

True...I'm actually more offended (though I hate to use that particular word) by Washer's claims about professions of faith and evangelism that follows the Romans method. It reminds me, in a way, of a certain BB member who ignores certain scriptures in favor of their own closely-held doctrine, regardless how right or wrong that doctrine is.

We have to remember that, if one of our brethren is overtaken in a fault, it is incumbent on us to pick up our brother and help him, bearing one another's burdens, and fulfilling the law of Christ..

Fair enough.

 

[evangelist6589]

Our identity before God the Father from the moment we believe is righteous through Christ's work on the cross; "it is finished".

Works, even obedience are not necessary to maintain this postiion; God sees Christ in our place -- nothing can come between us.

Our obedience is a display of our appreciation, gratitude and love of God for what he has done for us and not a burden we need to place on those still seeking God.
Of course after we believe, works ouflow from those who have been called from darkness into light.

"Righteous Lot" is an example of God's grace to a man who stepped out in faith and failed yet was still considered faithful before God.

The thief had no chance to confess the multitude of his sins and no chance to display the works of 'Lordship' in his life.

It appears to me that you have a hard time submiting to church leadership.
What you really want is a church that will affirm your entrenched belief system rather than one that teaches you simple biblically sound doctrine.

Rob

The church asked for input and so I gave mine.

 

[evangelist6589]

Are you not the head of your home? Does your wife not submit to you?



"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands." ~ Eph. 5:22-24 ESV

This one is a process and for another discussion. But frankly she will not submit in this one area. I can't force feed someone.

 

[gigabyte71]

This one is a process and for another discussion. But frankly she will not submit in this one area. I can't force feed someone.

Doesn't LS point to a possible issue? What would Washer say about a wife who isn't willing to submit?

 

[evangelist6589]

Doesn't LS point to a possible issue? What would Washer say about a wife who isn't willing to submit?

Love is patient....love is kind....

I need grace and patience in this situation.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Submission is voluntary. Love is patient.

He can't physically manhandle his wife and force her to attend a church that she does not want to attend.

Her attendance of that particular church does not prevent him from attending the church of his choice and conviction.

It isn't the ideal way, but it sure beats attending a church that you don't have anything in common with.

 

[PreachTony]

Submission is voluntary. Love is patient.

He can't physically manhandle his wife and force her to attend a church that she does not want to attend.

Her attendance of that particular church does not prevent him from attending the church of his choice and conviction.

It isn't the ideal way, but it sure beats attending a church that you don't have anything in common with.

I've seen several couples argue over church, with the man wanting to go to one church and the woman wanting to go to another. Instead of fighting about it, or arguing, or exercising dominion and authority over something like this, those couples I know have always compromised. I'm probably soon to go through it. I go to one church and my girlfriend goes to another church. Neither one of us is keen on moving our letters, so we'll be having that discussion at some point, I'm sure. Thankfully, both of our churches are quite similar in order, so we should, Lord willing, be alright.

 

[gigabyte71]

Submission is voluntary. Love is patient.

He can't physically manhandle his wife and force her to attend a church that she does not want to attend.

Her attendance of that particular church does not prevent him from attending the church of his choice and conviction.

It isn't the ideal way, but it sure beats attending a church that you don't have anything in common with.

You do realize I am giving the OP grief, right?

 

[Greektim]

Are you married? If it were up to me I would go to the Calvinist church down the road, but my wife insists on this church and refuses to leave. She has been attending the church for many years, long before we got married.

I am married. I also lead my family.

 

[Deacon]

It seems like we're off topic.

But...

...personally if I were placed in a similar situation, I'd demonstrate love and grace to my spouse and attend her church - unless there were some rather fundamental reasons why I shouldn't.

Rob

 

[evangelist6589]

It seems like we're off topic.



But...



...personally if I were placed in a similar situation, I'd demonstrate love and grace to my spouse and attend her church - unless there were some rather fundamental reasons why I shouldn't.



Rob

The church holds to the essentials of the faith so I have no reason not to attend there. They are brothers it's just they are not Reformed in Soteriology and have their pet doctrines like music, bible translations, and alcohol. I disagree with them in several areas, but I have no biblical reason to leave there.

 

[evangelist6589]

I am married. I also lead my family.

Imagine this.

Your wife gets ahold of John MacArthur, John Walvoord, and David Jeremiah eschatology books and starts to disagree with you. She insists you are wrong in eschatology and will argue with you over this one. What do you do?? No what would you do? Imagine you had no control over her getting the books.

You will either not respond or respond and say something like your wife would not read those books which is besides the point. Imagine if she did and was persuaded?

 

[gigabyte71]

Imagine this.

Your wife gets ahold of John MacArthur, John Walvoord, and David Jeremiah eschatology books and starts to disagree with you. She insists you are wrong in eschatology and will argue with you over this one. What do you do?? No what would you do? Imagine you had no control over her getting the books.

You will either not respond or respond and say something like your wife would not read those books which is besides the point. Imagine if she did and was persuaded?

If I disagreed with those people, I would prove to my wife that they were wrong. And I would do it with the Bible, not with another book.

 

[plain_n_simple]

How does this man propose to teach or evangelize the lost when his own house is divided? I fear we are going to hear sad things from Evan in the future.

 

[evangelist6589]

If I disagreed with those people, I would prove to my wife that they were wrong. And I would do it with the Bible, not with another book.

They won't listen to your interpretation of the bible.

Look I love my wife and will support her.

PERIOD

 

[InTheLight]

Imagine this.

Your wife gets ahold of John MacArthur,... <snip>

Yet from reading your posts here, I believe this is the scenario that has actually played out:

Your husband gets a hold of John MacArthur, John Piper, and R.C. Sproul soteriology books and starts to disagree with you. He insists you are wrong in your synergism soteriology and will argue with you over this one. What do you do?? No, what would you do? Imagine you had no control over him getting these books. He just keeps buying and buying them.

 

[blessedwife318]

Imagine this.

Your wife gets ahold of John MacArthur, John Walvoord, and David Jeremiah eschatology books and starts to disagree with you. She insists you are wrong in eschatology and will argue with you over this one. What do you do?? No what would you do? Imagine you had no control over her getting the books.

You will either not respond or respond and say something like your wife would not read those books which is besides the point. Imagine if she did and was persuaded?

Actually I don't have to imagine, as my husband and I do disagree over eschatology. But guess what the church we go to, is one that supports his eschatology and I am fine with that as I respect my husband as the head of the household. Before we got married we talked about how we would handle our differences and I made it clear that when it came to children I would never contradict him and his eschatology in front of them. He would not have married me otherwise.

As I said you have abdicated your roll as spiritual leader. That is not a loving thing to do no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise. And really until you get your own house in order you are not qualified to tell others how to live their lives, or to try to change the church you are going to.