Would see taht hwile in heaven right now primarily as our High Priest mediator, as still permits far much more than will on earth once His come to earth to now fulfill messianic Era Kingdom
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The Thousand Year Reign of Christ on the Earth
- Thread starter MrW
- Start date
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Again, scripture never states Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years. There are numerous examples of Christ reigning in Heaven for all eternity.
Again, there is no pre-trib rapture. Jesus very plainly stated He will return AFTER the tribulation, the saints are collected and then comes the great throne judgment.
Again, there is no separate future for Jews and Gentiles. Ephesians is definitive. Both groups have been made into “one new man”, bound by the cross of Christ and sealed by God Holy Spirit. For there to be a separate future for Jews and Gentiles, the work of Christ on the cross must be undone.
Peace to you
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
Yep, it is, however, the O.P. talks about that Thousand-Year-Reign of Christ as being, "The Thousand Year Reign of Christ on the Earth."
And I suppose we could say that your religion allows what you said there, as if "He will on Earth...during the Millenial Reign, but what is it about those words, "The Millennial Reign", could it be possible that you have just attributed to that expression, "The Millennial Reign", when they are your religion you do believe, even though there is nothing in the Bible that teaches or supports any idea having to do with Jesus Reigning on Earth, in the Future?, at all,
much less that Jesus will ever Reign on Earth for a Thousand Years, just because somebody came up with a concept like that and called their notion they had come up with by those often repeated words, "THE!!! Millennial Reign"!!!???
They are just words though. And, with them nowhere else to be found, but just in some words somebody started using, they aren't 'alive' and hard at all to set aside, a sec.
We could take another look at them and give them another go, just in case God has tons of fresh new Revelation, so to speak, that He might want to Bless us with.
Why would He possibly want us to miss out on SO MANY MORE RICH ENORMOUS BLESSINGS THAT ARE RIGHT THERE IN HIS WORD, ONCE HE SHOWS US HOW THEY CAN BE UNLOCKED MUCH MORE EASILY THAN BY ONLY HAVING BLIND FAITH?
An Exposition of Revelation Chapter Twenty
A verse by verse biblical exposition of Revelation Chapter Twenty. By Tony Warren
www.mountainretreatorg.net
"I am well aware that the 1000 years being symbolical goes contrary to the thinking of a lot of people brought up in the premillennialist traditions, and therefore it is "very hard" for many to turn away from those teachings, but we should be interested in truth, not man's tradition.
"Belief based on scripture is one thing, but indoctrination based on our teachers theories is another. If someone shows me (by Scripture) where I hold a wrong interpretation, I'd like to think that I will check those verses and gladly change my doctrine, giving thanks to the Lord for his giving me the eyes to see.
"Never will I blindly hold onto doctrine simply because it is what I have been taught.
"For one simple reason.
"I understand that The Holy Spirit is the teacher and I am simply the vessel. I must obey God rather than men. Be true to God rather than be true to my ideas, or my teacher's ideas. Faithfulness, is to God, not theologians. Whosoever is our authority, that is who we serve. Likewise, I would hope that all Christians take that very same philosophy in their study of scripture.
VERSE FOUR.
- "And I saw thrones, and they set upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them which were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither has received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years".
"He is very specific! He saw the souls "of" those that were beheaded for the witness of God. The souls of them, nothing more! Again, this is the Spiritual picture that the Lord is giving us.
"First the Messenger of the Covenant comes from heaven and binds Satan that the New Covenant Church can be built, and then John sees the souls of those martyred raised up to reign with Christ on thrones. In other words, they are made kings and Priests unto God after Christ binds Satan.
"If you look at verse 5 you'll see that this (the souls of these martyrs up on thrones) is called The First Resurrection.
"It's now a simple matter of Biblical deduction to discover exactly when and what was "The First Resurrection?"
Again, fitting perfectly into place we see that it was at the cross! These Souls were raised up to reign with Christ because of the work at the cross and Christ's resurrection thereafter. Christ is the "First" Resurrection. Those who have part in the first resurrection are all the True Believers who have part in Christ's First Resurrection.
"They are the First Resurrection (the second being at Christ's return). Those who have died in Christ have gone to be with the Lord, having been raised with Christ to reign. That's the First Resurrection these martyrs have part in, which precludes the second death.
"The very fact a first resurrection is spoken about, indicates that there is a second.
"And the second resurrection is at Christ's return.
"This is at the time of the Rapture when when the rest of the dead will be raised to stand for Judgment.
"And then there will be the second death, of which those who have part in the First Resurrection (raised with Christ) have no need to worry about. Likewise, the very fact that a second death is spoken about, implies that there is a first death.
Romans 5:12-14
- "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
- (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
- Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
1st Corinthians 15:21-22
- "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
- For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
"Therefore the first resurrection from the dead is not physical, but spiritual.
"It is in Christ, the firstfruit. And we shall 'realize' that eternal life resurrection at his coming.
"Do not be confused by this First and Second Resurrection, and the First and Second Death.
"This is the way the Lord writes things that His sheep 'alone' will receive it.
"Just as in the parables He told. If we look at these verses carefully and objectively, we can see that the thousand years are not literal. These souls are those of the martyrs in heaven. It says these are those beheaded because of the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and are those who didn't receive the mark of the beast in their foreheads (sign of bondage to satan).
"And we read the rest of the dead lived not again for 1000 years (verse 5). This also illustrates that this is not speaking about a future first resurrection, for there is one future resurrection of the just and the unjust. And it is not (nor can it be) the first. If this were indeed a literal number of years, then even all of the "rest of those who died" would have all had to die on the same year. Else they could not have died and not lived again for that literal thousand years. Did everybody (the rest of the dead) all die the same year? ..see how convoluted this gets?
Con't;
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
"Likewise in the 1000 years the believers who died lived and reigned with Christ, is it the same thousand years satan is bound? If so, how can the souls of the dead be reigning with Christ in heaven when Christ is (supposedly) reigning with men here on earth in literal jerusalem in the middle east? Moreover, if the rest of the dead for a thousand years refers to the same thousand literal years Satan is bound, then when Satan is loosed after the thousand years, these "rest of the dead" must also live again, and we have a world with dead people walking around, because scripture emphatically says they lived again after the thousand years?
"Does Satan have an army of "literal" dead people helping him deceive the nations and coming against the camp of the Saints? For the rest of these dead live after this thousand years, and Satan is loosed after a thousand years. On and on this inconsistency and torture of scripture is endless in the premillennialist doctrine. If we just bother to look at it carefully we understand that it simply cannot be literally a thousand years.
But here is the truth of the matter. We should understand that everything in this Revelations chapter 20 is going along in a logical chronological progression. Christ, The Messenger of the Covenant, Comes down from heaven with this Key (Christ is the one with the Keys to Hell and death -Rev. 1:18) and great chain and lays hold on Satan and bounds him 1000 year (the fullness time for the Lords purpose) so that He can free Satan's prisoners and populate Christ's Kingdom with the spoil.
"He shuts Satan up in this spiritual prison symbolized by the fathomless abyss where he can't deceive the world and prevent the Lord's plan to build His Temple by spoiling satan's house! God sets a seal on him (indicating that He assures this).
"This is God's "signification" of security that no one can loose Satan but God who bound him. He will not be not loosed until the fullness of time is accomplished (spiritually, 1000 years). So after Satan is bound, John sees the souls of the martyrs then living and reigning on thrones. This is consistent with scripture of the binding of Satan, and the work of Christ on the cross which allows these souls to have been raised up from the dead to "live" and reign with Christ! They are kings and Priests unto their God having had part in Christ's Resurrection.
"These are those who are not servants of Satan (received his mark of servitude), but they are/were martyred because of their witness and for the Word of God they brought.
"And they all live and Reign (spiritually) 1000 years with Christ. And it is by the work of this messenger of the Covenant that they can be translated into the Kingdom and live and Reign with Christ."*
Ephesians 2:56-57
Why?
Because, it sure seems like Forever, like Jesus never will be Coming Back, but one major characteristic of Him saying, "a thousand years", is that THAT IS A 'FINITE' NUMBER, A LIMITED NUMBER OF YEARS, THAT WILL COME TO AN END, WHEN JESUS RETURNS IN GLORY AND JUDGMENT.
And that will The End of The Age of the Churches, The New Testament Era.
The Great Consummation of All things. And the End of Time as we know it.
That is what all the rest of the verses in the Bible teach;
He'll separate the sheep from the goats, man.
(Not, 'come back to talk to the Jews, Personally, like we were supposed to do and Satan tricked us into forgetting all about them and not making the least effort of preaching Jesus death, burial, and resurrection to them over there in Israel'.
We 'are going to let Jesus do it Himself', when He's never mentioned one word of it?)
"Does Satan have an army of "literal" dead people helping him deceive the nations and coming against the camp of the Saints? For the rest of these dead live after this thousand years, and Satan is loosed after a thousand years. On and on this inconsistency and torture of scripture is endless in the premillennialist doctrine. If we just bother to look at it carefully we understand that it simply cannot be literally a thousand years.
But here is the truth of the matter. We should understand that everything in this Revelations chapter 20 is going along in a logical chronological progression. Christ, The Messenger of the Covenant, Comes down from heaven with this Key (Christ is the one with the Keys to Hell and death -Rev. 1:18) and great chain and lays hold on Satan and bounds him 1000 year (the fullness time for the Lords purpose) so that He can free Satan's prisoners and populate Christ's Kingdom with the spoil.
"He shuts Satan up in this spiritual prison symbolized by the fathomless abyss where he can't deceive the world and prevent the Lord's plan to build His Temple by spoiling satan's house! God sets a seal on him (indicating that He assures this).
"This is God's "signification" of security that no one can loose Satan but God who bound him. He will not be not loosed until the fullness of time is accomplished (spiritually, 1000 years). So after Satan is bound, John sees the souls of the martyrs then living and reigning on thrones. This is consistent with scripture of the binding of Satan, and the work of Christ on the cross which allows these souls to have been raised up from the dead to "live" and reign with Christ! They are kings and Priests unto their God having had part in Christ's Resurrection.
"These are those who are not servants of Satan (received his mark of servitude), but they are/were martyred because of their witness and for the Word of God they brought.
"And they all live and Reign (spiritually) 1000 years with Christ. And it is by the work of this messenger of the Covenant that they can be translated into the Kingdom and live and Reign with Christ."*
Ephesians 2:56-57
- "Even when we were Dead in sins, hath made us alive together with Christ, by Grace ye are Saved,
- and hath Raised us up together, and made us to sit in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus".
Why?
Because, it sure seems like Forever, like Jesus never will be Coming Back, but one major characteristic of Him saying, "a thousand years", is that THAT IS A 'FINITE' NUMBER, A LIMITED NUMBER OF YEARS, THAT WILL COME TO AN END, WHEN JESUS RETURNS IN GLORY AND JUDGMENT.
And that will The End of The Age of the Churches, The New Testament Era.
The Great Consummation of All things. And the End of Time as we know it.
That is what all the rest of the verses in the Bible teach;
He'll separate the sheep from the goats, man.
(Not, 'come back to talk to the Jews, Personally, like we were supposed to do and Satan tricked us into forgetting all about them and not making the least effort of preaching Jesus death, burial, and resurrection to them over there in Israel'.
We 'are going to let Jesus do it Himself', when He's never mentioned one word of it?)
I am not addressing a Dispy eschatology but more of a Reformed Covenant theology Baptist, from an Historical premil position here
The Messianic Era is upon the earth, and the earth afetr second coming shall have all nation worship Lord Jesus, and shall have Paradise restored for that literal Kingdom reign upon earth, and after that shall be the so called eternal state
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
Interesting religion you talk about there, but God doesn't have anything to do with anything like that you mention.
That's why there isn't anything in the Bible that says One Word about any of those things you're writing down there.
And that's why, when you wrote them, you don't have Book on any of it, to quote.
Unless, you think that is what the blank pages in the back of The Bible are for(?)
You're religion without God is protected by The Freedom of Religion in The United States, though.
is Satan bound in Hell right now? is this messianic Age one foretold when Messiah reigns upon Davids throne as time of no sickness, diseases. famines nor wars then?
Christ will rule 1000 years on the Earth, which completes the seventh day, and 7000 years of man’s history, thus fulfilling the week. Deny it all you wish, it will happen.
No , just ones Interpretation , and again, nothing to break fellowship over, see how Dr Sproul and Dr MacArthur loved each other, even though each of them thought the other was "all wet" in doctrines such as infant/believers water baptism and second coming events!
That would only apply to full blown pretierism and Kingdom now views though
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I get it. It’s an interpretation. I can point out it isn’t supported by scripture.
The whole 7,000 years of existence is wild speculation based on misunderstanding of how the ancient Hebrews viewed numerology.
Peace to you
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Therein lies the rub … are Revelation 1-19 explicit? If not, then what metric “rightly divides” explicit from non-explicit?
37818
Well-Known Member
Yes. But only this chapter 20 is literally about the 1000 years.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Yes it is. It states those faithful, martyred during the great tribulation (no pre trib rapture), will “reign with Christ” for a 1000 years. That is the context. Christ reign is in heaven and is eternal. The 1000 year reign “with” Christ is the reward for those faithful martyred, and that occurs in heaven.
Many change that very explicit, very clear, meaning to imagine a 1000 year reign of Christ “on earth”, to fit a theology that didn’t exist until the 19th century, and that is contradicted by many passages of scripture.
Peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
No, the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is explicitly on Earth.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Ummm …
Revelation 20:1-6 [ESV]
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
… WHERE in there is it “explicitly on Earth”? Does the word Earth even appear?
The only thing EXPLICIT is that it was two visions.
Truth is that the scriptures can be used to support to some degree pre/Mid/Post Amil positions