The Tide Shifting Against the Death Penalty

[Crabtownboy]

But as Mexdeaf said above, consistency isn't the primary concern - being Biblical is. And CP is Biblical.

The world tells us that "love the sinner but hate the sin" is inconsistent - e.g., think of the homosexual community and how they say you cannot really accept them as people unless you accept their lifestyle. Well, maybe "love the sinner, hate the sin" is inconsistent from a human perspective, but I know what the Bible teaches and that should always trump what we perceive to be consistent or not.

Also, if consistency is your concern over life issues, then you need to take the Amish/Quaker view and be against all forms of violence - even if it entails protecting the innocent, aka my killing spree murderer example above. In the end, such ultra consistency is moral cowardice.

Capital punishment is accepted in the OT, but I do not see it being preached by Jesus. If you accept CP from the OT you must also accept slavery, stoning disobedient children, not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, etc. The Bible really does not speak about abortion and yet many fundamentalists take a liberal position trying to force the Bible in this regard.

If you are against one you have to be against the other. You can not be pro-life in one area and pro-death in the other and be consistant.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you are against one you have to be against the other. You can not be pro-life in one area and pro-death in the other and be consistant.[/SIZE]

Abortion and CP are apples and refrigerators.

 

[Andy T.]

Capital punishment is accepted in the OT, but I do not see it being preached by Jesus.

Paul talks about it in Romans 13. Paul was taught by Jesus.

If you accept CP from the OT you must also accept slavery, stoning disobedient children, not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, etc.

Says who? You? You do realize that CP was implemented by God before the Law of Moses, don't you?

The Bible really does not speak about abortion and yet many fundamentalists take a liberal position trying to force the Bible in this regard.

And this is where I lose my patience. Since consistency is your primary concern, I have no respect for you when you state that Jesus is clearly anti-CP, but when it comes to abortion, well, we really can't be sure about that. If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny.

If you are against one you have to be against the other.

Says who? You?

You can not be pro-life in one area and pro-death in the other and be consistant.

Like I said, I don't care about being consistent from your's or anyone else's human perspective; I care about being Biblical.

 

[Crabtownboy]

aul talks about it in Romans 13. Paul was taught by Jesus.

Jesus has ascended before Paul became a Christian. Show me where Jesus taught his disciples that CP is all right.

Remember, "Turn the other cheek."
"Love you enemy"

Says who? You? You do realize that CP was implemented by God before the Law of Moses, don't you?

Then you must accept all the laws of the OT and I doubt seriously you do that. Also we are under grace now, not OT laws.

And this is where I lose my patience. Since consistency is your primary concern, I have no respect for you when you state that Jesus is clearly anti-CP, but when it comes to abortion, well, we really can't be sure about that. If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny.

I am not for abortion and I am against CP. I am somewhat tired of Fundamentalists and Conservatives being liberal in this area and inconsistant with Christ's teachings. It is liberal to try to make the Bible say what it does not say and that is exactly what you are doing ... picking and choosing to support what you already believe.

Like I said, I don't care about being consistent from your's or anyone else's human perspective; I care about being Biblical.

Fine, but be Biblical then and not contridictory, pro-life and also pro-death.

Have a blessed day.

 

[BigBossman]

My whole thought on the death penalty is this:

If you got DNA evidence, use it. If the crime was carried out in brutal manner, if it was premeditated, or if a child was murdered, then the death penalty should be used. I think that lethal injection is too humane for some of these murderers on death row.

Here in Alabama, our former governor, Fob James, commutted a death sentence for a woman who murdered a child. The lady injected the child with chemicals. His reasoning for commutting the death sentence was that she accepted Jesus as her Lord & Savior.

I personally think that is great that she gave her heart to Jesus. I believe that there is forgiveness for our sins no matter how brutal they are. My problem with this is that if I were in her place, it would have prepared me to meet my maker. The other problem I had with this is, while you might be forgiven of your sins, you still have to face the consequences of your actions.

While I don't think criminals should be able to choose their punishment, if I were on death row & was going to be executed, I have always thought the firing squad was a dignified way to go. That doesn't mean that I think that they should have their dignity while getting executed. That's just the way I would want to go. I look as it as that I am standing & facing the firing squad without any fear. I wouldn't even ask for a blindfold.

The other interesting thing is four of the five marksmen have blanks, the other fires the bullet. The marksmen don't know who has the bullet in their rifle. In some ways, I guess it prevents them from feeling guilty because they don't know who fired the fatal shot.

 

[Revmitchell]

Paul talks about it in Romans 13. Paul was taught by Jesus.


Says who? You? You do realize that CP was implemented by God before the Law of Moses, don't you?


And this is where I lose my patience. Since consistency is your primary concern, I have no respect for you when you state that Jesus is clearly anti-CP, but when it comes to abortion, well, we really can't be sure about that. If it wasn't so sad, it'd be funny.


Says who? You?


Like I said, I don't care about being consistent from your's or anyone else's human perspective; I care about being Biblical.

Did you know that you are a liberal?:laugh:

 

[Andy T.]

Jesus has ascended before Paul became a Christian. Show me where Jesus taught his disciples that CP is all right.

Show me were he said CP was wrong. The most you can get from John 8 is that we shouldn't do it for adultery. Bro. Curtis addressed this earlier, though.

Remember, "Turn the other cheek."
"Love you enemy"

Ok, if you are going to apply these verses to the government (they're not - they were written to individuals), then the government needs to turn its cheek on all crimes. A guy steals, the gov't should turn its cheek. Etc. Something tells me you don't want to go down this road - better backtrack while there is still time.

Then you must accept all the laws of the OT and I doubt seriously you do that.

Umm, no. There are means of interpretation that show which laws were for the nation-state of Israel and which ones are for everyone. There are many OT truths that apply to everyone and not just the nation-state of Israel.

Also we are under grace now, not OT laws.

Ok, then you won't mind if I steal your car? Why no, you say? Why not - we are under grace - you need to turn the other cheek when I steal your car.

I am not for abortion and I am against CP. I am somewhat tired of Fundamentalists and Conservatives being liberal in this area and inconsistant with Christ's teachings. It is liberal to try to make the Bible say what it does not say and that is exactly what you are doing ... picking and choosing to support what you already believe.

There are so many verses and Biblical principles that show without a doubt that life begins at conception. I use the conservative, historical-grammatical interpretation method. There's nothing "liberal" about it.

Fine, but be Biblical then and not contridictory, pro-life and also pro-death.

Like I said earlier, I am so pro-life, that when someone murders in cold blood one of God's image-bearers, the punishment should fit the crime as mandated by God. To be against CP is the true pro-death position, which is why most anti-CP people are also pro-abortion - they are the truly consistent ones.

 

[Andy T.]

Did you know that you are a liberal?:laugh:

Yeah, it's pretty funny. He's just using a diversionary tactic to avoid the real issues at hand - it's like trying to paint me into a corner in a round room.

 

[JamieinNH]

is way off topic.

That's funny! You were the one that brought this thread OFF topic to start with...

 

[JamieinNH]

Give it up Matt ! You cannot covince people with your well thought-out reasoning. They are to wrapped up in their own "certitude".

I wholeheartly agree with you! There are some people on this board that will never get it because they never see their own mistakes.

 

[Andy T.]

That's funny! You were the one that brought this thread OFF topic to start with...

Sure, I admit that I steered the thread in a somewhat different direction, but at least the direction is related to the OP. But Jim started talking about Original Sin, which really has nothing to do with the OP or any of the related topics at hand.

 

[JamieinNH]

I guess the lesson is to bring yer victim to a non-CP state to do the deed.

Too funny! The problem is the crooks rarely give any thought to what their doing..

 

[JamieinNH]

Sure, I admit that I steered the thread in a somewhat different direction, but at least the direction is related to the OP. But Jim started talking about Original Sin, which really has nothing to do with the OP or any of the related topics at hand.

You steered it Off Topic.. Plain and simple. Don't try to connect the dots. An Off Topic post is just as bad as any... Don't worry though, the moderators don't mind Off Topic posts.....

Jim's post was/is as valid as yours.

 

[Andy T.]

I wholeheartly agree with you! There are some people on this board that will never get it because they never see their own mistakes.

Why is it the Greatest Evil of All Time to be convinced of something? Aren't you convinced of a lot of things? I can name one thing you are convinced of based on your previous comment - you are thoroughly convinced that some on this board "will never get it." How shameful for you to be so convinced of that!

I'm getting sick and tired of all the false humility and self-refuting pious statements in this thread.

 

[Andy T.]

You steered it Off Topic.. Plain and simple. Don't try to connect the dots. An Off Topic post is just as bad as any... Don't worry though, the moderators don't mind Off Topic posts.....

Jim's post was/is as valid as yours.

Well, all I can say is, there's off topic and there's off topic. At least my sub-topic is discussing the Biblical view of CP, and CP is the main subject in the OP.

 

[JamieinNH]

Why is it the Greatest Evil of All Time to be convinced of something? Aren't you convinced of a lot of things? I can name one thing you are convinced of based on your previous comment - you are thoroughly convinced that some on this board "will never get it." How shameful for you to be so convinced of that!

I'm getting sick and tired of all the false humility and self-refuting pious statements in this thread.

It's a fact of life, some people will never get it... Let me ask you a question, does everyone go to heaven? Or do some people not 'get it"? Does everyone get a good job/life or do some people live pay check to pay check without change? Some people never get it...

It's a fact of life, not my opinion that some people will never get it.

Even on this board, on some conversation, some people won't get it....

What you're sick and tired of is not my opinion that some people won't get it.. I don't know you all that well, but it appears that you're are not one to talk about being humble. You can sling it just like all the others around here. Don't mis-think you're any better or worse than anyone.

The OP made a statement that I agreed with in that Matt has a valid point of his opinion, and has made a good case for it. The thing I saw and the thing the OP mentioned was this: "....well thought-out reasoning"

We all get so carried away with threads that sometime we don't think things through... I appreciated Matt and his well thought out response.

I also stand by my statement, some people on this board will never get it... It's human nature and a fact of life. Get use to it, or get over it... either way it's my opinion and I am standing by it.

 

[JamieinNH]

Well, all I can say is, there's off topic and there's off topic. At least my sub-topic is discussing the Biblical view of CP, and CP is the main subject in the OP.

That is just a excuse, not an answer. Off topic is..... off topic period.

 

[Andy T.]

Jamie, I don't begrudge you of being convinced that some people will never get it. So let's make a deal - you don't begrudge me of being convinced that CP is Biblical, or that being anti-abortion requires one to be anti-CP.

BTW, I don't think I'm humble, because as soon as I think that I am, I'll be in trouble. :laugh: But what I am aiming at is this false humility that thinks embracing mystery over certitude is somehow humble or pious. It's not. And it's self-refuting, as has been shown several times. Moses was called humble, yet I see that he was quite certain about a number of things. Paul was humble, too, but I also see him being sure about many things. Jesus, the God-man was perfectly humble, but He too was also certain about many things. So "certitude" is not the Great Sin that the post-modern, secular mind is convinced it is.

 

[carpro]

... We know innocents have been executed because of the number who have been released because of DNA. There is no way to say that no innocents have not been executed now!

You made a clear statement of fact that innocent people had been executed.

Who are they?

Are you now saying it is just your opinion?

Evidently you KNOW no such thing.

 

[LadyEagle]

IT's page 10 and closed. LE