The total inability of the Gospel

[kyredneck]

Originally Posted by The Biblicist
The fallen nature does not change in the regeneated man, it is simply either subdued by the power of the Holy Spirit or else it assumes control.

:thumbsup:

The redeemed, born from above, child of God is capable of doing everything that they're told in the Book NOT to do.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok, so you are arguing that a regenerate man doesn't get his nature changed, made new? But that a regenerate man simply has his fallen nature subdued by the HS? Is that correct?

If the HS's work through regeneration can subdue the fallen will enough to certainly bring man to faith, why couldn't the HS's work through the Gospel subdue the fallen nature enough to certainly enable a free response?

truth of the nature of man though is that being fallen in its very nature, IMPOSSIBLE to subdue/convert/change, and the Lord HAS to grant a sinner new life in order to have the message of the cross make sense and acceptable to Him!

 

[webdog]

truth of the nature of man though is that being fallen in its very nature, IMPOSSIBLE to subdue/convert/change, and the Lord HAS to grant a sinner new life in order to have the message of the cross make sense and acceptable to Him!

So the Spirit presents man with the Spirit inspired Word and Spirit empowered messengers...but the mans fallen nature is more powerful than the Spirit? How does this not limit the power of God and escalate the condition of man OVER the Spirit?

 

[The Biblicist]

So the Spirit presents man with the Spirit inspired Word and Spirit empowered messengers...but the mans fallen nature is more powerful than the Spirit? How does this not limit the power of God and escalate the condition of man OVER the Spirit?

You are not accurately presenting our position in your words above. We believe that salvation occurs EVERY SINGLE TIME the "Spirit presents man wiht Spirit inspired Word and Spirit empowered messengers" but NEVER saves anyone when the gospel comes "in word only" without "Spirit empowered messengers."

You are assuming that every time the gospel is preached it is empowered by the Spirit. Every time it is preached it is truth but truth without the Spirit empowering it INSIDE OF THE HEART accomplishes nothing or don't you pray when you share the gospel the Holy Spirit will save that person? Perhaps you don't pray that the Holy Spirit will save that person IF you believe all the power you need is found in opening your own mouth and speaking it! If that is true, then why ask the Holy Spirit to do what you believe the gospel alone already has the power to do?????

 

[Skandelon]

You are not accurately presenting our position in your words above. We believe that salvation occurs EVERY SINGLE TIME the "Spirit presents man wiht Spirit inspired Word and Spirit empowered messengers" but NEVER saves anyone when the gospel comes "in word only" without "Spirit empowered messengers."

You reference 1 Thess. 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

You read something into this text that simply is not there. Yes, Paul acknowledges the power of the gospel which came to the Gentile congregation (Acts 28:28), people who were NOT thought of a being the 'elect' of God (as the Jews were), and that is exactly OUR VIEW. The the gospel comes in power...enabling POWER, which is being sent to the Gentiles at this time. That is how we know the Gentiles, like the Jews, were CHOSEN...because the gospel was sent to them too. "The gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who believe...first to the JEW and then the GENTILE."

The Gentiles acceptance of the gospel proves that the gospel IS POWERFUL...as it even enables the dirty barbarians of that day to accept and follow Christ. But did EVERY gentile who heard the gospel come? No. Why?

1. Because the gospel is just not powerful enough to enable them.
2. Because they chose to trade the truth in for lies and reject it.

I choose #2. Calvinism chooses #1

You are assuming that every time the gospel is preached it is empowered by the Spirit.

And you are the assuming that every time God's inspired truth is preached is doesn't have enabling power. Which is worse? To assume God's words have power or to assume they don't?

There are only three way the truth doesn't have power:

1. People don't hear the truth because its not available. (Rm 10)
2. They don't hear/see the truth because its being blinded from them. (Hardening - a condition not from birth, but one we can "become" after much rebellion in the face of God's long-suffering) (Acts 28, Mk 4, Matt. 13, Rm 11)
3. People choose to trade the truth for lies...(self deceived), which will eventually lead to becoming more hardened (see #2).

 

[Reformed]

Just popping in for a moment. I am inundated with family during this holiday weekend. I know there are some posts that were directed towards me in a few C&A threads and I just do not have the time to get to them right now. I do not want anyone to think I am avoiding them. I am not. I should be back into the swing of things next week.

I hope everyone is having a blessed Thanksgiving holiday.