The Tower In Siloam

[kyredneck]

Jeremiah 31:35-37 (King James Version)

35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Yes, 'For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.'


12 Now if their fall, is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
15 For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
23 And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. Ro 11

28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God[which is now], and yourselves [Jews] cast forth without. [We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat that serve the tabernacle.]
29 And they [Gentiles] shall come from the east and west, and from the north and south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God [which is now].
30 And behold, there are last [Gentiles] who shall be first [into the kingdom of His dear Son, which is now], and there are first [Jews] who shall be last [into the kingdom of His dear Son, which is now]. Lu 13

I am convinced that the above passages teach that there will be, yet to come, a revival amongst the Jews and a general incoming of Jews to Christ, i.e. the Church, where we the Gentiles are now; NOT some future reinstatement of the Old Covenant or the old sacrificial system of the OT that premillennial dispensationalism, which has morphed into a form of Christian Zionism that is hardly distinguishable from Jewish Zionism, espouses. It's ironic that the first great dangerous heresy and enemy to the early Church, Judaism, is being set on a pedestal within the Church today.

......God has cast off Israel as His chosen people.

I resent your deceitful tactics; you're doing that 'olegig distortion' again. That's NOT what I implied at all:

2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew......
11 I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid... Ro 11

But it's plain from Lu 13:28, the Jews have been cast out of the kingdom (for the time being). When they are grafted back in with the rest of us, then they will be His chosen people along with the rest of us. They're in no way superior to the Gentiles.

But I don't see how one explains that the sun and moon are still around doing their thing.

I don't see how that is pertinent to anything I've written. You mite have to splain that one.

If one is amil, then one feels we are in the kingdom now with Christ spiritually ruling and reigning from heaven.

Yes.

So now I ask what you do with the following:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (King James Version)

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

If we are presently in the Kingdom, then we should not be "flesh and blood".
If you have a literal interpretation of how we can be in a spiritual kingdom while being flesh and blood, then I am listening; otherwise I had just as soon talk about the weather

.

Your question reminds me of Nicodemus. He didn't get it either. A man must be born of the Spirit before he can see or enter into the [spiritual] kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit:

who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; Col 1:

for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1:11

You reference 1 Corinthians 15:50; back up to vv 23-24:

....Christ`s, at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.

At His coming He delivers up His kingdom to the Father. I take it from the context of the chapter to mean that that's when we will all be changed 'in the twinkling of an eye' and go to heaven, i.e., inherit the kingdom of God in the realm of eternity.

Its one of those been-there-done-that things. After debating hundreds of time with those who do not take the scriptures literally I have found that given enough license they can make the scriptures say whatever they wish so I just cut to the quick.

It's yet to be seen if I'm goona do that, now ain't it?

I see now I should have brought up the tough one first.

And I've replied. Now answer my question:

And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he saith unto it, Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away. Mt 21:19

Do you think our Lord is losing his temper at a tree? If not, what's the meaning in this verse?

And, since I've now responded to four in a row from you, answer this also (you don't want me to start calling you 'one way olegig' do you?):

....them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9

...the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie... Rev 3:9

Do you literalize or spiritualize these? Are these physical Jews or something else?

 

[olegig]

And I've replied. Now answer my question:

And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he saith unto it, Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away. Mt 21:19

Do you think our Lord is losing his temper at a tree? If not, what's the meaning in this verse?

Yes, He is losing His temper at a tree, a tree that represents the nation of Israel.
A nation that has had the instruction and position of being God's messengers to the world of His salvation.
But the nation is not willing to carry out the task because within the nation there is good and evil fruit.

2One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

There is part of the nation that is steeped in self-righteousness and covering themselves with the leaves as did Adam and Eve; but bearing no fruit in the process.

IMO Jesus, with the fig tree, is marking the turning from the nation of Israel as His messengers to the world to turning to the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be full.

And, since I've now responded to four in a row from you, answer this also (you don't want me to start calling you 'one way olegig' do you?):

The truth is I am pretty well set in my beliefs and you are as well in yours.
I have no hope of changing you; but I am interested in what you do with previously stated passages to make them agree with your theology.

I will admit to being a bit 'one way' in that I have more interest in how you deal with said passages than in trying to persuade you to my theology.

....them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9

...the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie... Rev 3:9

Do you literalize or spiritualize these? Are these physical Jews or something else?

IMO they would include the catholic church and anyone else who holds to the Replacement Theology that says God is finished with the Jew and will not physically fulfill the promises He made in the OT to the nation of Israel.

 

[kyredneck]

Thank you olegig sir. I very much appreciate and respect your response. Duty has me consumed at the moment, I intend to comment further; you may be surprised at how much, I think, common ground we share and are in agreement!

 

[kyredneck]

[deleted by me]....

 

[kyredneck]

....because I decided to start a thread on it.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=65141