The Trib and Rev 7:14?

[Outsider]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider
It doesn't mean that all 3 coincide timewise, but it doesn't mean they don't. When I look at Matthew 24 & 25, this is what it tells me.

Then the judgments of Mt 25 should have immediately followed, no? So when, in your end times scenario, did the "man travelling to a far country" come back and judge his servants? Or "the Son of man come in His glory..." (Mt 25:31)??


Quote:
1. When shall these things be? Mat 24:4-22

Try this: Mt 24:5-6 alone precede the destruction of the temple, "but the end is not yet."


Quote:
2. What shall be the sign of thy coming? Mat 24:23-35; 36- Mat 25:30 tells us to always be ready.

Mt 24:7 is "buildup" to the tribulation as 4:8 avers. Mt 24:9-31 is the tribulation divided in the middle by 24:15.

Mt 24:32-51 answers the 3rd question -- end of the age. The signs of the church age ending are 24:32-43 followed by 25:1-13. The end of the age of law 7 years later is Mt 24:44-51 followed by 25:14-46.


Quote:
3. And of the end of the world? Mat 25:31-46

There's no "end of the world." There is the Millennial Kingdom of Christ (Rev 20:1-10) followed by the eternal kingdom of God (21-22:5).


Quote:
I think it is a need to prove we are well studied (For some people, not all).

This is true, 1Cor 4:1. But when it comes to you, it's not "manna" in the bread but "manna" on the ground. YOU have to organize and mix it properly and I'm sure Ed and I will pray you do.

That is certainly a view point. Another view point is that sometimes we strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

 

[skypair]

That is certainly a view point. Another view point is that sometimes we strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Are you a "student" or merely an "observer?" All due respect, but so far all I am detecting from you is, like my brother at IU, you sold your textbooks for "party money!" :laugh:

BTW, he's a periodontist today but not by virtue that attitude! :laugh:

skypair

 

[TCGreek]

Varies. I'm traeating this like a serious question, TC. LaHaye and Hinson in The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy have it like this: Ephesus - 30-100, Smyrna - 100-313, Pergamum - 313-600, Thyatira - 600-1517, Sardis - 1517-1648, Philly - 1648-1900, Laodicea - 1900-present. They credit this particular chronology to Frucktenbaum (p. 52 -- I recommend this reference book for your study). Larkin has a similar, not quite so precise :laugh: chronology. (Ever heard of any of these guys?)

As the authors say, it is easy to look back and see this. Apparently, according to p. 352, this approach was first suggested by Victorinus, Bishop of Pettau circa 313 AD.

Here's the "dispensational view:" The churches are 1) historical (95-96 AD), 2) representative of churches during the church age, and 3) "prefiguring 7 aspects of the professing church which would successively rise..."

Hang in there, TC! :jesus:

skypair

Thanks Skypair,

But I see nothing of Scripture providing the data for such computation.

I'm interested in Scripture not arbitrary computations.

 

[Outsider]

Are you a "student" or merely an "observer?" All due respect, but so far all I am detecting from you is, like my brother at IU, you sold your textbooks for "party money!"

I'm a student of scripture. I study the Bible. I find it is the correct thing to study. Maybe your brother had the wrong text books. If he did, he was smart to sell them, otherwise he would have spent a lot of time and studied real hard but all the wrong information. He would have been able to quote authors and use big words, but he would have been wrong all the same. It happens, I see it a lot.

 

[The Archangel]

Are you a "student" or merely an "observer?" All due respect, but so far all I am detecting from you is, like my brother at IU, you sold your textbooks for "party money!" :laugh:

BTW, he's a periodontist today but not by virtue that attitude! :laugh:

skypair

This response is uncalled for. Just because outsider doesn't agree with you (and many, many people don't) doesn't mean he lacks the intelligence to discuss the issue at hand.

Unfortunately, you have shown your typical response: Attack the person

How sad that you treat your brothers and sisters that way.

The Archangel

 

[skypair]

Thanks Skypair,

But I see nothing of Scripture providing the data for such computation.

I'm interested in Scripture not arbitrary computations.

Rev 2-3 IS that scripture. If you are asking for a "blow-by-blow" analysis of them, Larkin does a pretty good job on that but my copy is on loan (3 months now -- I need to get it back).

But suppose you had Larkin even. You're still sounding rather closed to the concept and that, it seems, because it doesn't give a very flattering image of your theology. Would this be the kind of thing to make you reconsider Calvinism?

Rev 3:1-6 -- "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

I would simply point to 3 parts above: 1) "name that liveth but art dead" we've discussed before. "Jesus" is the name but many in Sardis are afraid to call on Him through repentance and sinnder's prayer because that is "work."

2) Therefore, remember how YOU received and heard -- many were saved before they took up the theology first cited in (1).

3) Many have no earthly idea of what is to come because "replacement theology" is "part and parcel" of Calvinist-Reform belief. Your inquiring of me right now is proof positive that Calvinism is lacking in eschatology and I just described for you why that is.

skypair

 

[skypair]

This response is uncalled for. Just because outsider doesn't agree with you (and many, many people don't) doesn't mean he lacks the intelligence to discuss the issue at hand.

Unfortunately, you have shown your typical response: Attack the person

How sad that you treat your brothers and sisters that way.

The Archangel

AA, I asked him a proper question. The rest was a JOKE that has some basis in fact.

What we are discussing requires as much study to rebut as it does to assert. outsider was not bringing his facts to the table - I was.

skypair

 

[TCGreek]

Rev 2-3 IS that scripture. If you are asking for a "blow-by-blow" analysis of them, Larkin does a pretty good job on that but my copy is on loan (3 months now -- I need to get it back).

But suppose you had Larkin even. You're still sounding rather closed to the concept and that, it seems, because it doesn't give a very flattering image of your theology. Would this be the kind of thing to make you reconsider Calvinism?

Rev 3:1-6 -- "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

I would simply point to 3 parts above: 1) "name that liveth but art dead" we've discussed before. "Jesus" is the name but many in Sardis are afraid to call on Him through repentance and sinnder's prayer because that is "work."

2) Therefore, remember how YOU received and heard -- many were saved before they took up the theology first cited in (1).

3) Many have no earthly idea of what is to come because "replacement theology" is "part and parcel" of Calvinist-Reform belief. Your inquiring of me right now is proof positive that Calvinism is lacking in eschatology and I just described for you why that is.

skypair

Skypair, I'm premil.

But I'm not going to blindly accept someone's computation about the 7 historical churches in Asia, when they cannot provide me with substantial Scripture.

I go by what I see in Scripture not some guesswork.

 

[Outsider]

outsider was not bringing his facts to the table - I was.

I go by what I see in Scripture not some guesswork.

The Bible is enough facts for me.

 

[skypair]

But I'm not going to blindly accept someone's computation about the 7 historical churches in Asia, when they cannot provide me with substantial Scripture.

Just for the record, you already accept someone's interpretations of scripture whose interpretations you can't objectively confirm.

Nevertheless, here's a Larkin website that might be helpful. http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/tbr/index.htm

skypair

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Revelation chapter 2 and 3 do not giving hint of the year period of the seven churches, and didn't saying which church period, we are in now.

All seven churches in Asia(now Turkey) were literal and existed during John's time in the late of First Century. Christ knew their works and spiritual with blessings and warnings.

These are apply to us, what kind of type, we are. Ravelation chapter 2 and 3 apply to all types of churches throughout all centuries till second advent.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Skypair, I'm premil.

But I'm not going to blindly accept someone's computation about the 7 historical churches in Asia, when they cannot provide me with substantial Scripture.

I go by what I see in Scripture not some guesswork.

Amen, Brother TCGreek -- Preach it.

People who don't know Logic (the Logic that God gave to humans; nobody knows God's logic) are going to have to wallow in ignorance (not knowing).

One's OPINION or GUESS as to what the Bible says is NOT the same as what the Bible says.

1. The rule of number.
God repeats the most important things

Example:
A. 1 listing (only in some Bibles) of the name of the Lead Devil: Lucifer
B. 56 uses (KJV1769 Edition) of the Job Title of the Lead Devil: Satan

2. The rule of number
God give many pictures of the most important things

Example: Individual salvation pictures:
A. saved
B. born-again
C. Redeemed
F. regenerated
G. adopted into the Family of God
H. born into the Family of God
I. elected
J. sanctified
etc. etc.

Individual Salvation must be very important to God, He sent His only begotten Son to die for our salvation

Ed notes that 'last trumpet' is NOT mentioned in the KJV1769 Bible
Ed notes that 'last trump' is mentioned once in 1Co 15:52.

Evidently 'last trump' is NOT one of God's most important ideas.

 

[skypair]

Revelation chapter 2 and 3 do not giving hint of the year period of the seven churches, and didn't saying which church period, we are in now.

You missed the "hints" then. To say that you can't find them but the 5 scholars I named can does not help you make your case.

skypair