The U In The TULIP Doctrine

[Ray Berrian]

'Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated,' is dealing with Almighty God's Personal choice/election of Jacob to be the person to whom the promised line of the Redeemer would be produced. Esau was despised in this choice of the Living God. A futher experience for Esau was that he was placed in the Land of Edom, hardly the choice land where the the Twelve tribes would reside. Notice, Esau was despised by God because not one of the tribes were named after his name. Can you imagine the honor given Jacob, now that we know that from his lineage the birth of our blessed Lord took place. This is partially what God speaking through the Apostle Paul in Romans nine meant when He said, 'Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.' (Greek word for hated can mean 'to love less.')

The other view of Romans nine was placed in motion by the famed Catholic theologian, Augustine and later systematized by the famous spiritual and political leader from Geneva, John Calvin.

Respectfully,

Dr. Berrian

 

[swaimj]

There is no doubt that Esau was a godless man in the story referenced in Hebrews 12. However, that was not the end of his life. There are strong indications that God changed him later in the story. When he met Jacob later, he and Jacob emmbraced in a genuine display of brotherhood. Gone was the murder that Esau had harbored in his heart.

As to Pastor Larry's statement on Romans 9:

Even if it is referring to nations, the point is still God sovereign control. Jacob and Esau are merely illustrations of the author's point.

The author's point is verse 7: Not all of those who are of the physical seed of Abraham are the spiritual children of Abraham. To illustrate this, he shows that in two cases, those of Ishmael and Esau, people who were physical descendents of Abraham were not part of the elect nation of Israel. Paul's purpose was to explain to the Jews how they could be physical descendants of Abraham and yet still be headed for hell.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Let's wind this discussion up. I will close it later today. If someone wishes to continue on a particular point, feel free to start another thread. Make your final posts. This is mine (unless someone ticks me off

).