Thank you for a very reasoned responces. I agree and appreciate the time you took to explain as I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed.
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The Unpardonable Sin
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
It's definitely something to fear.
It is the knowing, proud and defiant defamation of the Holy Spirit in the face of the undeniable manifestation of His power.
The Pharisee's knew that Christ was casting out devils by the Spirit. They didn't say it was an act. They didn't say this was an elaborate ruse by the devil himself like so many occult healings. They saw, and perceived that the devils were being genuinely driven from their prisoners. They knew that no one but he that is sent of God would have this authority.
And they said, for the sake of their audience, for the purpose of preserving their status in the eyes of the people, He get's His power from the Devil.
There it is.
Thank you for a very reasoned responces. I agree and appreciate the time you took to explain as I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the shed.
You seem to do pretty good to me, brother.
God bless.
was that a unique one time Sin, as they had the Lord Himself physically right there in their midst then?
No, but then such manifestations of the Spirit are not commonplace.
Agreed. Hebrews 6:6 and 10:26-29 deal with falsely professing "believers" that reject Christ.
God bless.
The earthly ministry of our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ was to the nation of the Jews only. He was a Jew and he said he came (in the flesh) to his own and his own received him not. (Jn 1:11) When confronted by a gentile woman in Matt 15 asking for favor, he said he was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house (family) of Israel. Later, in John 12:24 he said in the context of gentiles desiring a meeting with him, that he would have fruit among the gentiles after his death and resurrection. God the Father did not, during the days of his ministry, draw gentiles to Christ as he did the Jews, through the OT written prophecies and testimony about his person and work. Neither did Jesus Christ preach about his death, burial, and resurrection, but he preached what he called the gospel, or the glad tidings, that the kingdom of heaven was at hand, and the King was in the midst of them, ready to be received. Nary a one of his 72 disciples believed or even knew anything about his impending death and resurrection from the dead that was facing him at the end of his 42 month ministry to Israel. I will need to prove that or no one will believe me and no one on this forum will believe the words even after I prove it. Here is each of the gospel writers at the end of the ministry of Jesus Christ as he is on his way to Jerusalem to die for our sins and to be raised from the dead.
Mt 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mr 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Mr 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. 32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Lu 18:31 Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
Joh 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
The kingdom of God over the earth through his people Israel was not already established when he came but it was "at hand." Meaning that he was ready for it to be established but it required that his people be born again first. Being born again meant that Israel must be born of God by his Spirit both individually and as one man collectively before his kingdom on earth would be established. Look what he said to a Jewish ruler.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
The Spirit through which Israel would be born, and by extension all the families of earth would be born again, is the Spirit that would flow out of his wounded body on the cross. The Spirit is the life of God and when he is in a repentant and believing person then that person has the life of God in them and he will never leave them or forsake them. However, that was not possible until Jesus died and was buried and rose again from the dead and ascended to heaven and sent his omnipresent Spirit as his gift to all who will receive him by believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ. One must believe the person of Jesus first before they may receive the Spirit. This was the message to Nicodemus.
In the first 12 chapters of Matthew we see Jesus ministering to Israel and healing those with diseases and casting out devils. It was harvest time for the old world and time for the reaping. Jesus had swept and garnished the house of Israel making it possible for the Spirit to come in and abide. But, the Jewish rulers would not receive Jesus Christ as messiah and they would be born of the devil. Jesus said to them that "ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do." He called that particular generation a generation of vipers, which is what their father was. This generation was charged with receiving the Messiah and to teach the people but they refused and consequently they,the nation, did not receive the Spirit and the devils came back to a swept and garnished house of Israel and the last end of that house was worse than the first by 7 times. These at the end of the age who refused the salvation of God would not be given the opportunity in the next age (world). This is the unpardonable sin and can only be committed by a single generation, but not the whole generation. Look what Jesus said of these Christ rejecters when the age was closing.
Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
Mt 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.
Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world (aion = age), neither in the [world] to come.
"This age" in verse 32 was the age of the law of Moses in which Jesus ministered and the "age to come" is the age we are currently occupying between the cross and the "day of the Lord" during which the Holy Ghost will indwell men making them children of God by his presence in them.
Those who come to the end of this age and are not saved will likewise be blinded and will lose opportunity to be saved in the beginning of the next age. Here is proof.
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2 Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The man of sin will be revealed at the beginning of the next age, called in the scriptures "the day of the LORD" and it will be too late for the unbelievers of this age.
This is just a brief summation of the unpardonable sin as we call it.
My advice to all is to be sure you are really saved by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ . He is the way to God the Father.
Mt 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mr 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Mr 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. 32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Lu 18:31 Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
Joh 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
The kingdom of God over the earth through his people Israel was not already established when he came but it was "at hand." Meaning that he was ready for it to be established but it required that his people be born again first. Being born again meant that Israel must be born of God by his Spirit both individually and as one man collectively before his kingdom on earth would be established. Look what he said to a Jewish ruler.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
The Spirit through which Israel would be born, and by extension all the families of earth would be born again, is the Spirit that would flow out of his wounded body on the cross. The Spirit is the life of God and when he is in a repentant and believing person then that person has the life of God in them and he will never leave them or forsake them. However, that was not possible until Jesus died and was buried and rose again from the dead and ascended to heaven and sent his omnipresent Spirit as his gift to all who will receive him by believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ. One must believe the person of Jesus first before they may receive the Spirit. This was the message to Nicodemus.
In the first 12 chapters of Matthew we see Jesus ministering to Israel and healing those with diseases and casting out devils. It was harvest time for the old world and time for the reaping. Jesus had swept and garnished the house of Israel making it possible for the Spirit to come in and abide. But, the Jewish rulers would not receive Jesus Christ as messiah and they would be born of the devil. Jesus said to them that "ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do." He called that particular generation a generation of vipers, which is what their father was. This generation was charged with receiving the Messiah and to teach the people but they refused and consequently they,the nation, did not receive the Spirit and the devils came back to a swept and garnished house of Israel and the last end of that house was worse than the first by 7 times. These at the end of the age who refused the salvation of God would not be given the opportunity in the next age (world). This is the unpardonable sin and can only be committed by a single generation, but not the whole generation. Look what Jesus said of these Christ rejecters when the age was closing.
Mt 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas [is] here.
Mt 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.
Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world (aion = age), neither in the [world] to come.
"This age" in verse 32 was the age of the law of Moses in which Jesus ministered and the "age to come" is the age we are currently occupying between the cross and the "day of the Lord" during which the Holy Ghost will indwell men making them children of God by his presence in them.
Those who come to the end of this age and are not saved will likewise be blinded and will lose opportunity to be saved in the beginning of the next age. Here is proof.
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2 Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The man of sin will be revealed at the beginning of the next age, called in the scriptures "the day of the LORD" and it will be too late for the unbelievers of this age.
This is just a brief summation of the unpardonable sin as we call it.
My advice to all is to be sure you are really saved by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ . He is the way to God the Father.
The epistle to the Hebrews greatly interests me as a born again gentile Christian and there is much to learn about God in it's chapters, but it is not an epistle that I will go to to learn how I am to walk and to prosecute my Christian faith. The title of the epistle is a dead giveaway that it is not addressed to me or to the church of Jesus Christ. The title of the letter is "To The Hebrews." It is written to a race of people with whom God has made several covenants and it deals with their history as the people of God that predates the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ by 2000 years. This is another fact that persuades me that I am not in the mind of the writer of this epistle. It is not written to one Hebrew or two Hebrews or to born again Hebrews or to unsaved Hebrews, it is written to the people who are born of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. It is written to all Hebrews. It is time for them to repent and trust Jesus Christ and to live under the new covenant because God had put away the old covenant wherein were the figures of this present age. Falling away is reverting to the old testament and forsaking the new. The church cannot do that.
Now look, Jesus Christ has gone to heaven, sitting of the right hand of God, awaiting till it is time to arise and return. The Hebrews are in a 40 year probationary time frame. This time is congruous with the "generation" of Jesus Christ. Read this; "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." Matt 1:1 Anytime "this generation" is in the NT it is a reference to the generation of Jesus Christ, which, like any generation of men, is 70 years. AD 70 is the end of the generation of Jesus Christ in his ministry to Israel in redemption. Instead of being nationally converted as God willed, they died a national death and time comes to an end when someone is dead. Consider the following verses in relation to my words above;
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Here is the probation prophecy:
Lk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree (metaphor for national Israel) planted in his vineyard (Judah is his pleasant plant, Isa 5); and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Israel must be born again in order to enter his kingdom, and they came to the end of the generation of Jesus Christ and they were not saved.
Jeremiah 8:20
The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
The fig tree was cut down and removed from the vineyard in AD 70 by the Romans.
Psa 90:9 For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.
10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
11 Who knoweth the power of thine anger? even according to thy fear, so is thy wrath.
12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.
See in Hebrews 3 that the time of the wilderness wandering of Israel under Moses is but a metaphor for the probation of Israel in the time after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 40 years, at which time all those who committed the unpardonable sin died and another generation entered the rest of God, his kingdom in salvation. This is a picture of being born again. The first man cannot enter in because he is natural. The second man enters because he has been made spiritual by Jesus Christ.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The operative phrase is in V 26, "every one of you." Jesus will not arise to return until all the unbelievers of Israel are consumed by his wrath. That is what the anti-christ and the day of the lord judgments (the great tribulation) are all about.
Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
What do we learn? God is serious about righteousness. Unpardonable sin? Some men just runs out of time.
Israel was in fact "dead" when they were created by God. No man has life except they eat of His flesh and drink of His blood, or in other words, believe on Jesus Christ, the bread of Heaven which came down that men might have life, and thus not be dead.
Prophecy continually makes it clear that God is not finished with Israel. Their restoration is a major theme of Prophecy, and we will see it fulfilled just as all Prophecy is fulfilled.
Romans 11 King James Version
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Paul appeals to Prophecy to underscore his point that God has not cast away His people. And the fact is, if God casts away His people, then not a single person can be assured they won't be cast away either. And Scripture makes it clear that God will not abandon nor forsake us.
But can He, does He—allow blindness among His People?
Of course, and this is the condition of Israel today, and will be until the Tribulation begins. Then on a national basis we will see Israel restored to relationship with GOd through the New Covenant:
Romans 11 KJV
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Paul is referencing the promise of God to Israel, and God will keep His promises.
All of them.
Nowhere in Prophecy is Israel said to be destroyed (except in the context of their spiritual condition, which is one of utter destruction that is shared by all men since the Fall). It is the Jew and the Gentile that are made one in Christ, not former Jews and Gentiles.
We don't see 144,000 Gentile witnesses in the Tribulation, but those distinctly identified as tribes of Israel.
No, God is not yet done with Israel, and He will bring them under the New Covenant through their final Week of judgment, the Tribulation.
God bless.
Israel is dead nationally and collectively because they are separated from God and by 70 AD, ending their probationary period, they had failed to enter into their rest and was subsequently buried in the graveyard of the nations. They lost their national identity and came under the control and authority of the governments of the nations into which they were driven. For good measure God destroyed their temple and burned down their city. They were not born again under the grace of God, a requirement for the physical kingdom of Jesus Christ to be established on the earth. It was at this point that the church of Jesus Christ took on a distinctively gentile character. A Jew outside of his land is a stranger and is cut off from his national covenants. Hebrews was written in circa 65 AD, long after the church of Jesus Christ had been established at the Pentecost of Acts 2 when the Spirit was sent to Israel in 30 AD.
In Romans 7 through 11 (written in AD 58) Paul deals with Jews as the children of Abraham by birth and connected to God in covenant relationship but it is explained to them that this birth does not make them children of God. Therefore Israel is divided at this stage into two groups. The natural, those born of Abraham, and the spiritual, those born of Abraham first and then born again of God and the figures and types, such as Esau and Jacob, and Ishmael and Isaac are intended to contrast this truth and to give a physical example that should be easy to follow for those familiar with these people and their heritage. The first born is natural and the second born is the one suited for God to bless.
We learn that the larger group,the natural, seeks righteousness by the works of the law while those who are spiritual have received the righteousness of Christ, which is perfect and is that which is required by God, by faith in what he has accomplished in his life, death, and resurrection on their behalf. Further along, we learn that both have designated titles. The natural among them are called Israel and the spiritual are designated as the "remnant (of Israel) according to the election of grace." Since Israel, the larger group, are blinded by their own unbelief and only a small number believes, God includes the gentiles so, as he says in Romans 11, "his house might be full." It is important to see that it was God's intention to fashion a family or house for Jesus Christ in this age.
Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
The personal pronouns in this letter are Hebrews, and does not include gentiles, and we know now that the Hebrews, the holy brethren, did not answer the heavenly call and fell away and according to Hebrews 6 and 10 it was impossible to renew them again to repentance. The end here is obviously the end of the 40 years probationary period, which was quickly coming upon them, and they did not enter into God's rest.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds (aions = ages);
What did the Son say to the Hebrews in these last days?
Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It is important to know that God deals with his Hebrew people as a single entity though they as a people are many individuals. Their second birth will be as the natural birth. Every single Hebrew was delivered out of Egypt. The first passover was the birth of their nation and the beginning of months.
What advice did the author of Hebrews give concerning what they had heard the Son say?
Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Back to the unpardonable sin.
We see in Hebrews that Jesus kept his word to Israel who rejected him when he came.
Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Jesus spoke to Israel in the last days of the age of the law. The end of this present age could have ended in 70 AD had the Hebrews repented and believed the gospel. The Romans would have brought all the OT prophecies concerning the end times to pass and the saying of Jesus would have found its truth that these Jews would not have been saved in the present age. This brings me to the prophesies concerning the group that is titled "Israel" in Romans 11. They will be saved in the age called "the day of the Lord," the next age, which is very near.
When the house is full then the bridegroom will come and take his bride the church to the Father's house in heaven and the resurrected nation of Israel will become the focus of the Father's salvation activity and the fulfillment of every prophecy concerning his kingdom and his people will be minutely fulfilled down to the jot and tittle. All Israel (those few that are left after the great tribulation) will then be saved and Jesus Christ will reign on the earth in perfect righteousness for one thousand years.
So says the scriptures.
Ro 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Ro 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for (which is righteousness); but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Life from the dead is a resurrection in anyone's vocabulary. So Israel will receive a resurrection and we saw it in 1948 AD. But they were resurrected in body but the Spirit is not in them yet, but look at this.
Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel (this is the Israel that was blinded and dead)shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
See Ezekiel's dry bone vision in chapters 36 & 37 for explanation.
The end of your post actually disagrees with this, as you are forced by Scripture to acknowledge Israel's Restoration in the Millennial Kingdom.
I am glad, though, that we are in agreement on that point. It certainly makes things easier.
You said:
JD731 said: ↑
AD 70 is the end of the generation of Jesus Christ in his ministry to Israel in redemption.
It is Jesus Christ Who will redeem Israel through the Tribulation. The Nation of Israel will "all be saved (Romans 11:25-27)" because all unbelievers among her will be physically destroyed.
As you have rightly said, no man that is not born again will enter the Millennial Kingdom. Christ's teaching in John 3, though teaching also Regeneration through Christ's death, has relevance to the Kingdom Nicodemus would have been familiar with.
So perhaps you are not making yourself clear or I am just dense in the head, but you seem to be contradicting yourself in saying "Israel's kaput!" and Israel will be restored (paraphrase of what you actually said).
Losing a national identity is not the same as suggesting Israel has suffered utter destruction.
Prophecy cannot be fulfilled except that Israel remain a Nation throughout the Millennial Kingdom.
God did not do that, the spirit of Antichrist did that. Christ is not the "prince that shall come." Christians are not the people that destroyed the sanctuary (Daniel 9:26-27).
God did end the Covenant of Law through Christ, but that is not the same as saying "God ended Israel."
There is still a remnant, and that has always been enough.
Israel has not ceased to exist as a Nation. They are under blindness, but still exist:
Romans 11:23-27 King James Version
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
The "they" of v.23 refers to those of the Nation of Israel. There has to be an Israel for God to graft them back in (to the "tree" of provision, i.e., the True Vine).
Keep in mind that Israel is not the tree, they are, like as we, branches. The tree is the means of provision for relationship with God. Christ is the "True Vine" because He is God and the true means of relationship with God.
You can't have Israel under blindness without having an Israel.
Continued...
Simply not going to be supported by Scripture. The Church is made up of Jew and Gentile.
Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, we are made into a singular people.
And those two groups are Jew and Gentile.
We (the Church, the Body of Christ) do not "take on a Gentile character," lol, we take on the character of Christ.
We, Jew and Gentile, are the new creature. The twain made one in Christ.
Continued...
They would be of no avail even if he weren't.
The Covenant of Law is no longer in force, and the only means of relationship with God is through the True Vine, Jesus Christ.
And what Hebrews is teaching is that the Hebrew People must not try to be in relationship with God through the Covenant of Law, but through the New Covenant.
In this we are in full agreement: the Church began at Pentecost, on that day, and specifically because the Comforter was sent.
I agree with this for the most part. I would add we see the phrase "sons of Abraham" applied to all men of faith regardless of their heritage. This is something that becomes a stumbling block for people that do not make the distinction that we, the Church, are not sons of Abraham, but sons of God, and that being a son of god began only after God manifested in flesh (John 1:11-14).
So, "spiritually speaking," as Paul does in his references to Esau and Jacob, and Ishmael and Isaac, we can be called sons of Abraham. But the reality for us is that we have become sons of God (the ultimate fulfillment of what it means to be a son of Abraham (people of faith)) and born of God based on His Work in the Incarnation.
Continued...
There are only two groups in the world: the saved, and the lost.
You are creating a third: Saved Israel; Unsaved Israel; Gentiles.
There is only the new man, and the old man. No such distinction is made in a salvific context in Scripture.
There isn't a portion of Israel that does not have the provision of God made readily accessible to them. Those of Israel that believe are grafted in. Those of the Gentile Nations that disbelieve are cut out, or in other words, there provision for salvation is removed.
Natural men fall under that provision as do the saved. Branches cut out of the True Vine are those who reject the truth.
And that is what Israel did on a national basis.
I would agree with that.
God did not include thGentiles because of Israel's unbelief.
Gentile Inclusion is simply a basic principle within the Promises of God:
Genesis 12 King James Version
1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
All families of the earth. All Nations (Galatians 3:8).
God's promise to save from among all mankind began in the Garden (Genesis 3:15).
That is why Paul warns of Gentiles boasting:
Romans 11:18 King James Version
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
The great nation of Genesis 12 is Israel. They are the "root."
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
God's promise to save Gentiles isn't a new idea:
Isaiah 42:6
I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
All families of the earth are blessed through Abraham and the Nation God said He would create.
So two people groups physically, Jew and Gentile.
And two people groups salvifically, saved and unsaved. Both come from the former two.
Continued...
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
"Upon true repentance.
"Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out Acts 3:29"
JonC, the scripture you are posting, is found in Acts 3:19, there is no verse 29. Just thought you would like to know.
Also these scriptures is very instructive where "Repentance" comes from!
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
It is GOD that grants the "Repentance" "IF" He so desires to according to His Will and purposes.
Lord bless you.....
In His Love.....
He is showing a clear distinction between the provision under the Law, and the provision of the New Covenant, which was given unto Israel as a Nation, and spoken of in National terms:
Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Notice that the promise is made to divided Israel: the houses of Israel and of Judah, the northern and southern kingdoms.
Both will be brought under the New Covenant.
Again:
Hebrews 10:15-18 King James Version
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
And again:
Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
It is National Israel that will be brought under the New Covenant, not simply individual Jews.
Prophecy and Promise will go unfulfilled if they are not.
This is the Israel that will be in the Millennial Kingdom.
And it is from the Twelve Tribes that the 144,000 Witnesses will be drawn.
Continued...
That the Book of Hebrews is written to Hebrews does not mean 1) that is has no application to Gentiles, and 2) that it denies Israel's heritage. It does in fact strengthen the fact that Israel will and has retained her heritage.
The Lord did not mean for the Book's value to expire when Israel was scattered.
They did not enter His rest at that day and time. Entering into the physical rest pictures entering into eternal rest.
And again we see a remnant in that passage:
Hebrews 4:8-9 King James Version
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Would the possibility for the rest that is yet future end when Israel is scattered?
Not at all. There remains a rest for the People of God, and here specifically the Hebrew People.
The last days are this Age, not the final days of Christ's Ministry. If you read Matthew 16:20-23 you will see that even the disciples rejected the Gospel.
It would not be until the Comforter began to enlighten men to the Mystery of the Gospel that the disciples would understand, and then preach the Gospel.
This began at Pentecost.
I would agree, since Christ did not come unto the Gentiles or Samaritans, but to the Lost Sheep of Israel only, that this was spoken unto Jews/Israel (Matthew 10:5-6; Matthew 15:24).
However, His teachings also apply to all families of the earth.
In these last days.
Their first birth was their physical birth as individuals. If they are born again that will be their second birth.
Not sure I would view the first Passover as their first birth as a nation, seeing they were still in Egypt for the first Passover, lol.
Secondly, I don't see Israel's restoration in terms of "birth" except in the context of my first statement here. Israel's Restoration will occur through their being born again, but this is on an individual basis to make the collective whole of the Nation (... all Israel will be saved).
Their entrance into the Millennial Kingdom (the Regeneration) depends on Regeneration, but they will be a physical Nation as they were before.
Continued...