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The USA should break off diplomatic relations with The Vatican.
- Thread starter church mouse guy
- Start date
This discussion has been moved to another board. I have a hard time understanding The Vatican as a nation. Maybe this was an idea of the Italian government.
As for the fact that The Vatican has sports teams, so do a lot of corporations have sports teams. The Vatican is a medieval palace with vast warehouses of treasures--some priceless in the opinion of experts. While it is not responsible to Italian authority, it is not a nation in any normal sense of the word. The Vatican does not need an American political represntative to carry on its work.
What does The Vatican tax?
As for the fact that The Vatican has sports teams, so do a lot of corporations have sports teams. The Vatican is a medieval palace with vast warehouses of treasures--some priceless in the opinion of experts. While it is not responsible to Italian authority, it is not a nation in any normal sense of the word. The Vatican does not need an American political represntative to carry on its work.
What does The Vatican tax?
Yes, plenty of corporations have sports teams, but the Texaco Soccer team doesn't participate in World Cup Competition. Only nations participate there. We have diplomatic relations with just about every nation in the world. Why shouldn't we with Vatican City? Because they're a theocracy? Sure, but not a very oppressive one. There are no human rights violations in the nation that I'm aware of. I'm no fan of theocracies, but I wouldn't advocate cutting off relations with them. Again, if we did that, we'd have to cut off relations with the UK. Because they're small? We have ambassadors to just about every little dinky island nation you can think of. All of them are far less significant in global affairs than Vatican City. There certainly are no major conflicts between the US and Vatican City worthy of severing ties. Yes, you're right. It is an "idea of the Italian government". Italy granted Vatican City independence.
The Vatican is not a true political nation. It does not need a political hand-out from the United States. It is the Roman Catholic Headquarters, nothing more and nothing less. Should I call the Pope the King of The Vatican Nation just because he lives in a medieval palace free of Italian law?
What does The Vatican tax?
What does The Vatican tax?
The Vatican is not a true political nation.
Actually, it is. It is recognized as an independent nation by the international community.
It does not need a political hand-out from the United States.
Having an ambassador is not a "political hand-out".
It is the Roman Catholic Headquarters, nothing more and nothing less.
Vatican City is an independent nation. The Vatican runs the RCC. The fact that they are interconnected is irrelevant.
Should I call the Pope the King of The Vatican Nation just because he lives in a medieval palace free of Italian law?
You could if you want. The fact that he's the head of a nation as well as the head of a nation is irrelevant. Technically, Queen Elizabeth is both. If Tibet ever becomes free, the Dalai Lama would be.
What does The Vatican tax?
I don't understand the question or understand how it's relevant to this conversation.
Actually, it is. It is recognized as an independent nation by the international community.
It does not need a political hand-out from the United States.
Having an ambassador is not a "political hand-out".
It is the Roman Catholic Headquarters, nothing more and nothing less.
Vatican City is an independent nation. The Vatican runs the RCC. The fact that they are interconnected is irrelevant.
Should I call the Pope the King of The Vatican Nation just because he lives in a medieval palace free of Italian law?
You could if you want. The fact that he's the head of a nation as well as the head of a nation is irrelevant. Technically, Queen Elizabeth is both. If Tibet ever becomes free, the Dalai Lama would be.
What does The Vatican tax?
I don't understand the question or understand how it's relevant to this conversation.
Why keep mentioning the United Kingdom? It is an ancient country with a long list of traditions that have lost some of their meaning over time. There is no valid analogy between the British and the Catholics since England is only a theocracy in a minor sense. It is unfortunate that the Church of England cannot stand on its feet and is on the government dole--that's all. A better analogy for you would be Saudi Arabia or the other members of the Arab League.
The fact that The Vatican is not a true nation is proven by your failure to address the point that it is merely a religous headquarters housed in a medieval castle. The Vatican, always broke, also demands a government dole, and apparently American Catholics insist, from Washington DC to prop up its claim to political statehood.
If the Pope is a King, then Kings levy taxes. What does The Vatican tax?
The fact that The Vatican is not a true nation is proven by your failure to address the point that it is merely a religous headquarters housed in a medieval castle. The Vatican, always broke, also demands a government dole, and apparently American Catholics insist, from Washington DC to prop up its claim to political statehood.
If the Pope is a King, then Kings levy taxes. What does The Vatican tax?
Why keep mentioning the United Kingdom? It is an ancient country with a long list of traditions that have lost some of their meaning over time. There is no valid analogy between the British and the Catholics since England is only a theocracy in a minor sense.
The point is, the fact that Vatican City is a theocracy is irrelevant. If we base our diplomatic ties on whether or not the nation is a theocracy, then we must also cut ties with the UK, that's what I'm saying. The Queen's role as head of the Anglican church is very real.
It is unfortunate that the Church of England cannot stand on its feet and is on the government dole--that's all. A better analogy for you would be Saudi Arabia or the other members of the Arab League.
No, it's not. Unlike Saudi Arabia or just about every other one of those nations, the people of Vatican City are not killed or imprisoned for not being members of the state church. And even if they were, you're showing the flaws in your argument. Even if we assume Vatican City is just as oppressive as Saudi Arabia (which it's not), guess what, we HAVE diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia.
The fact that The Vatican is not a true nation is proven by your failure to address the point that it is merely a religous headquarters housed in a medieval castle.
That's not true. Vatican City is more than just a palace. It is in fact a city. Areas of that size can be indpendent nations. Vatican City is one of thoes independent nations.
The Vatican, always broke, also demands a government dole, and apparently American Catholics insist, from Washington DC to prop up its claim to political statehood.
Does Vatican City receive US aid? I don't believe it does. If it does, I oppose that. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that an ambassador exists to Vatican City.
If the Pope is a King, then Kings levy taxes. What does The Vatican tax?
Please show me where in international law taxes are required to be considered a nation. The money to run the nation is made from international as well as Vatican based donations (Peter's Pence), postage stamps, tourist memorabilia, museum fees, and the sale of media.
The point is, the fact that Vatican City is a theocracy is irrelevant. If we base our diplomatic ties on whether or not the nation is a theocracy, then we must also cut ties with the UK, that's what I'm saying. The Queen's role as head of the Anglican church is very real.
It is unfortunate that the Church of England cannot stand on its feet and is on the government dole--that's all. A better analogy for you would be Saudi Arabia or the other members of the Arab League.
No, it's not. Unlike Saudi Arabia or just about every other one of those nations, the people of Vatican City are not killed or imprisoned for not being members of the state church. And even if they were, you're showing the flaws in your argument. Even if we assume Vatican City is just as oppressive as Saudi Arabia (which it's not), guess what, we HAVE diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia.
The fact that The Vatican is not a true nation is proven by your failure to address the point that it is merely a religous headquarters housed in a medieval castle.
That's not true. Vatican City is more than just a palace. It is in fact a city. Areas of that size can be indpendent nations. Vatican City is one of thoes independent nations.
The Vatican, always broke, also demands a government dole, and apparently American Catholics insist, from Washington DC to prop up its claim to political statehood.
Does Vatican City receive US aid? I don't believe it does. If it does, I oppose that. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that an ambassador exists to Vatican City.
If the Pope is a King, then Kings levy taxes. What does The Vatican tax?
Please show me where in international law taxes are required to be considered a nation. The money to run the nation is made from international as well as Vatican based donations (Peter's Pence), postage stamps, tourist memorabilia, museum fees, and the sale of media.
They told me that it would be right-wing Catholics who would demand that the United States continue the Reagan policy of sending a man to Rome, but it seems to be left-wing, blame-America-first Catholics that are demanding a continuation of Reagan policy towards Rome.
What does the Vatican tax?
What does the Vatican tax?
I am not Catholic nor am I "blame-America-first". I dislike the RCC heirarchy for more reasons than I could list in this thread, but that doesn't change reality. Thanks for not addressing a single thing I said. And yet again, what does tax have anything to do with it? Please direct me to the law that requires a nation to issue taxes.
[ August 15, 2002, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Candide ]
The Galatian
Active Member
Really? I don't know of any like that. Tell me about it. Few Catholics care about it at all, but those that do are rightwingers. And I don't know of any Catholics at all who expouse "blame-America-first".
Or is that just a throwaway line like "capitalist lackey"?
ChristianCynic
<img src=/cc2.jpg>
What does the Vatican tax?
Evidently your mental energy, for one thing.
Evidently your mental energy, for one thing.