The value of the BV forum

I think this forum in itself is useful. But I think the people who are constantly warned for making personal attacks need to be asked to leave. Debates are nice, but when hate is mixed in- it just doesn't seem Christ-like to me.

 

May I ask this: Which is worse, dishonesty, or personal attacks?

Should both be treated with the same reprocussions?

 

I think we would have to rip apart that word "dishonesty" and determine what it really means. One man may view what he believes in as the truth, while another man may reject it as a lie. That does not mean anyone was dishonest. Can you provide an example of dishonesty?

 

Yes I can.

We had several discussions about Rev. 17:8, where many of us asked the KJVO to provide one manuscript or ancient witness which contained the words "kaiper estin".

Several claimed there were such manuscripts. So far, no one has named them.

Is it not dishonest to claim something exists, then refuse to produce the evidence? Is it dishonest to then say "I have answered your question?"

I feel it is just these types of things that cause the majority of the hostility between the groups. I feel very strongly that if KJVO were honest, which a few are, but I think most arent, then our views would be able to reconcile. However, I find far too many accusations from KJVO which they refuse to discuss. How can these types of things be honest?

 

Yeah, right!

Speaking as a moderator at another forum, I can truthfully say that if C4K is paid at the same pay scale I am paid at, then he couldn't buy a piece of bubble gum with his earnings.

Back to the OP...

If people who have nothing to contribute to a discussion would stay out of the discussion then things would go a lot more smoothly. For example, there is a current thread in this forum where the NKJV, the NASB and the ESV are being compared. Yet someone just couldn't leave well enough alone - the comment was made "None of them because I only use the KJV for clearest doctrines over modern versions." This had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. There was nothing of value shared, and the comment was obviously an attempt to derail an otherwise civil and intelligent discussion.

 

You tell us? I have indeed tried to be civil but I did not think we were at war against each other! I pesonally would like to make amends with TCassidy and DD for trying to teach me some edicate and proper manners! I have let byegons be byegons, and am willing to try and learn some more from all you fine outstanding christian Gentelmen! Now may I be so Bold as to ask you what are you trying to tell me? I Know I'm not in School anymore so I really enjoy this forum and hope that it stays open so I can learn About BV!I will be fair in listening first before I make quick judgements that have thus far given me a badd rapp! I can still hold to my KJB and Hold my head up high and shout it to the heaves that Jesus is Lord!

 

I will let my post be answered by Kubel. William, if you want further correspondence with anyone here, go back, look at our complaints, and make a thread to address the questions you did not answer.

That is all

 

So I'm beeing blak balled for Revelation 17:8 are you kidding me I do have an answer and I said I was working on that I am on it! I have connections that will eventually vindicate me! Was Rome Built in a Day? I will say this; I have all the correspondance I need with Jesus if all of you were to bannish me, excommunicate me stone me, burn me at the stake, or throw me to the Lions! Whats your question? that one word was not in codex sinaitcus that the TR has!I dont think so! It is there and I will find it! I have let it Go but will not give up hope cause I beleive. Thats why I joined the BB to get some feedback and to fight back in a civilized manner!

 

William,

You are not being black-balled. Its just that until you are respectable, no one will respect you.

Which means none of us really care much about what you have to say.

BTW, I said OPEN A NEW THREAD to address those issues. Dont derail another thread.

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhh OK

 

I can still hold to my HCSB and Hold my head
up high and shout it to the heaves that
Jesus is Lord!

Or I can hold my KJV1611 Edition Bible
over my head and shout it to the heaves
that Iesus is Lord!

Or I can still hold to my NIV and Hold my head
up high and shout it to the heaves
that Jesus is Lord!

OR I can still hold to my NKJV and Hold my head
up high and shout it to the heaves
that Jesus is Lord!

Or I can hold up all three and bust a gut

 

Your trying for 10000 posts arn't you?"[attack on God's word deleted]!

[ May 20, 2006, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

William,

Is there something wrong with you? Are you on meds? In one post you say your here to learn and understand and in the next you say this. I am concerned for you. Do you realize in the above sentence you have blasphemed the Word of God? All the translations that Ed used have the same Gospel. You are on thin ice, and not so much on this board, but with the Lord. Step back and think before you say these things. I must report this post as you have again slandred the Word of God.

Bro Tony

 

Ditto. Did it befoer I posted.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

That is unfortunate. The Great Commission is three-fold the last part being "teaching them to observe all things whatsoever . . ." When you only keep 1/3 or even 2/3 of the Great Commission you have not kept it the way the Lord wants you to.

Which explains why KJVOism is so prevalent in IFB circles. Too many think as you do, that teaching them is not a requirement of the Great Commission. </font>[/QUOTE]Tell you what, TCassidy, next time I win a Japanese KJVO advocate to Christ, I'll teach him what is wrong with his stand! But I haven't met one, saved or lost, in 25 years over here, so I doubt if it will happen!!

I look at the Great Commission as teaching me to teach those I win to Christ, not someone on the Baptist Board whose real name I don't even know! The fact that KJVO doctrine is prevelant in IFB circles is not my fault. I don't minister in the USA, except on furlough (where it is not my place to instruct my supporting churches on this issue) and here on the BB for the past few months. And evidently unlike you, I post on many other threads and try to teach folk about missions, etc. Preservation is not my priority in teaching others. Don't take this statement as a criticism--I realize you have your own priorities in ministry. You are doing what you do best here on the BV forum.

Having said that, if you will look back at my posts in this thread, I think you will find that you are misinterpreting what I said. I never said not to correct bad doctrine on the preservation issue. I simply said that we ought to have Christian graciousness while we do so, and when we are not getting through, IMO there are better uses of our time.

 

Yes that is dishonest, and it is most certainly wrong. However, dishonesty shouldn't give someone the excuse to return fire with a personal attack. Returning wrong for wrong is not right. And personal attacks don't help the situation, especially in a forum setting- because it turns into a "your stupid", "no you are", "no you".

I think the BV forum is a useful one. I came here as a KJVO, heard the civil arguments for and against it, and determined that it was lacking scriptural support and logic. Had I came here as a KJVO and saw personal attacks against people who supported my belief, I would have immediately been turned off to the truth and looked at these people as having bad attitudes that fail to show the love of Christ.

I don't think a majority of personal attacks come out of dishonesty. There is misrepresentation of facts and each others views, that is for certain. But I think personal attacks start with someone putting a little bit of attitude into their reply. Then the person returns fire with more attitude. And before you know it, a perfectly good debate devolves into mess of personal attacks, disrespect, and hate.

So the problem is not just dishonesty or personal attacks, but also poor attitude. It all traces back to not showing people the love of Christ that should be in us. If we can treat everyone with love and respect, there won't be any problems.

Until then, I think we need more moderators that take a tougher, unbiased stand against hate in all its forms. I appreciate the moderators we have now, but I think it's too much for just a few people to be handling.

 

DesiderioDomini,

Ok, having read all 15 pages of that debate... I don't think you were lied to there about the manuscript, I just think you were trolled .

 

William,

Is there something wrong with you? Are you on meds? In one post you say your here to learn and understand and in the next you say this. I am concerned for you. Do you realize in the above sentence you havethe Word of God? All the translations that Ed used have the same Gospel. You are on thin ice, and not so much on this board, but with the Lord. Step back and think before you say these things. I must report this post as you have again slandred the Word of God.

Bro Tony </font>[/QUOTE]My sincere Apology to you if that was your impression! I meant no harm; But that is my point exsactly! Who says which version is GOD's Word Who say's they agree? I'm entitled to my opinion but you are going on Emotions not that fire in the Belly. So if you were offended Why wasnt I offended If i so called blasphemed! Blasphemy is: Blasphemy is the defamation of the name of God. These may include using sacred names as stress expletives without intention to pray or speak of sacred matters. Sometimes blasphemy is used loosely to mean any profane language, for example in "With much hammering and blasphemy, the vesions replacement of the word "Calvary"was finally fitted.". I assure you I did not Baspheme the Name of God! I mearly hurt you feeligs cause you use the NIV dont you? I didnt poit out any particular version cause that is treding on thin ice but rebuking a [attack on the Bible deleted] is my job as a Bible beleiving Christian and not to focus on Emotion!

[ May 20, 2006, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

said above: //Who says which version is GOD's Word ... ?//

Who has to ask such a question?
The Written Word of God is clear with
the phrase 'All Scripture' including
all versions in English:

2Ti 3:16-17 KJV1611 Edition:
All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, & is profitable
for doctrine, for reproofe, for correction, for instrution in righteousnesse,
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished
vnto all good workes.

So I have a HCSB (all Scripture) and need to get on with my 'good workes'.

2Ti 3:16-17 KJV1769 Edition:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Notice the variation between the KJV1611 and the KJV1769.
If one says ONLY ONE BIBLE CAN BE TRUE, then
they need to pick between the two.

In the 1611 the ampersand '&' is used; in the 1769 the 'and'.
The 1611 is better because it distinguishes between
the various kinds of 'and' (Greek 'kai') - the 1769 has
stuff taken out of it

and what about 'righteousnesse,' and 'righteousness:' ?
The comma ',' means something different than
the colon ':' -- neither rendering is supported by the
Greek sources.