The Wall enough?

[TCassidy]

It seems to me that we have two different issues here.

1. Illegal immigration.

2. English language.

I am against illegal immigration while being in favor of legal immigration. My father immigrated to this country in 1924, legally.

However, I am also open to allowing illegals who are married to a legal resident, or the parent of a US citizen to be given a path to legal status. I would not break up a family. (What God has joined together, let no man put asunder.)

A little background. Both sets of grandparents were immigrants. On one side they came from Mexico (grandfather) and Ireland (grandmother). On the other side they came from Germany (grandfather) and France (grandmother). So I grew up in an extended family that spoke Spanish, Gaelic, German, French, and of course, English. I have no problem with anyone speaking a language I don't understand in my presence.

(Although I did have one humorous incident. When I first met my wife's grandmother and aunt (both native German speakers) they decided to talk about me a bit, in German. I sat and read a magazine while they discussed my looks, my demeanor, my taste in clothing and anything else that came to mind, all in German so I would not understand. After a couple minutes I stood to go to the rest room and said, "Entschuldigen Sie mich einen Augenblick bitte" and walked out of the room. The expressions on their faces was priceless! My wife and I still laugh about it over 40 years later!)

I live on the border. I mean right on the border. In Hidalgo County, Texas. I can hit the US Border (the Rio Bravo - usually called the Rio Grande by Anglos) with a rock on a good day. Hidalgo County is 91% Hispanic. And of those, 75% are descended from those who lived here while it was still part of Mexico in the early 1800s. We, and the other Anglos, are the newcomers. But English is still the common language. There are very few who do not speak any English. Most of the clerks in the stores are bi-lingual, which doesn't bother me a bit. They always speak English to me as soon as they see me, assuming English is my only language. (My wife is also a Spanish speaker. A Spanish speaking Dane/German - figure that one out!) But neither of us have any problem with that assumption.

I would not be opposed to English being the official language of the US (right now the US has no official language, unlike most other countries.) Spanish is the language de jure (official) in all Spanish speaking countries of Central and South America, including Spain itself, with the exception of 5 countries, including Mexico. (There are 21 countries where Spanish is the predominant language.)

But I also believe it behooves us to learn other languages. When Mexicans come to the US we expect them to speak English. But when we visit Mexico we expect them to understand our English. Go figure!

If you don't like Mexicans or the Spanish language, Texas is probably not the place you should be living. Remember, Texas used to be called Tejas, Méjico.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

In referencing that river, I talk about north of the Rio Grande and south of the Rio Bravo.

I can hit the US Border (the Rio Bravo - usually called the Rio Grande by Anglos) with a rock on a good day.

 

[Baptist Believer]

When I move to a country or area I will learn one. That said while I was pastoring on the rez I spent two years learning Navajo.

That's quite impressive! Did you gain enough competency to carry on deeper conversations?

 

[Revmitchell]

That's quite impressive! Did you gain enough competency to carry on deeper conversations?

No the language is very difficult they have five tenses and many of the pronunciations are gutteral sounds. It is very difficult to learn as an adult.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I am only half white by the way. Its not a racial issue.

I don't care if you are purple and green stripes, you sure make it sound like an issue of ethnicity.

Its a group of people with no ties to an area moving here and just taking taking, taking till nothing is left.

There's a lot of native-born Americans with that attitude. If that's really the issue, just call it out instead of couching everything in terms of "Hispanics."

You can act like what I am saying is not true, soccer is not a popular sport with Americans.

One of my closest friends going through public school played soccer quite competitively through junior high and high school in Southeast Texas (Beaumont-Port Arthur area), and I went with him to soccer tournaments in Houston. That was from 1977-1984. It wasn't hugely popular, but it was a growing sport. And the teams were primarily white.

I know exactly what I'm talking about here. You may just be ignorant of the facts.

You are full of crap, try going to any soccer field in Houston and seeing who is there playing. All of your points are absurd, how many are truly native to Texas?

Texas is quite multicultural, especially places where the energy and technology industry (think NASA) is strong. I also know that a lot of white people in the area separate themselves from non-whites, some of it just happens and some of it is quite intentional.

I'm sure all the illegals are taking classes to learn English psst. As a half white half black man I can tell you it was a lot of issues that drove people to vote for Trump, race was not one of them!

Except for all of the people who said race was an issue when they voted for Trump. Listen, I know lots of people who voted for Trump are not racists, but a lot of them are. When you come on here and compare "Hispanics" to locusts, I think you need to look at your attitudes.

Houston is not on the boarder, yet it is in a boarder region and attracts large amounts of Hispanics.

Big cities attract people who want to make a new start. Big deal. All of Texas is a "border region" according to your definition. Therefore, as a lifelong Texan, I am at least as qualified to speak to the issue.

Its like watching the problems the French, German and Dutch have with Muslims and yet they keep letting them in and act like nothing is wrong. If you don't live here or in a state with these problems you can sit back and lie and say everything is fine!

I have lived in the Beaumont-Port Arthur region, a couple of places in central West Texas, and in Fort Worth (all in Texas). I understand the ethnic composition of the state.

There not taking my job, my city funds, my school did not cut my students music program to hire more ESL teachers (hours did btw).

I can't figure out what you are trying to say here. Sorry.

So American workers can't compete against industrious, hard-working people? Sounds like you have union concerns

How dare you say this. We are getting our pay cut our benefits cut and loosing our insurance because there is a never ending flow of cheep labor. You don't have to compete with them do you? We do and we are in a licensed skilled trade. Our state enforcement agency is stretched beyond maximum because they have zero respect for our trade laws.

So you are blaming "Hispanics" for your inability to compete in the open marketplace? Listen, I'm with you on enforcement of the laws, and state regulatory agencies should do their jobs, but Texas has had decades of Republican governors to get their act together. The Republican Party in Texas (in my opinion) does a poor job of handling the state's affairs because there is no political incentive to do so since the majority of the populace seems to vote blindly for Republicans and there are few competent/qualified Democratic candidates.

I compete with "them" for jobs and work. I am a white male and I have been obliquely told that I am not the color of person that a firm is looking to hire. In regard to business for my firm, we face a legal disadvantage to winning jobs because we are not minority-owned. I get it. But you have to step up your game and add value to what you bring to a potential employer/client.

I have a lot of friends I grew up with who did not get an education past high school (not that they were not capable or that resources and programs were not available, but because they didn't want to do it) and they struggle from time-to-time with employment and making ends meet and then blame it on other people. I have a college degree and a bunch of graduate work and I did blue collar jobs for the first half of my working career. I have a white collar job and I still struggle to pay the bills and make ends meet because of some life circumstances that are out of my control. But we need to move past the attitudes of envy and entitlement to something stronger and better. We need to take responsibility for our lives and work hard for success. When you become a valuable team member, people want to hire and retain you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

No the language is very difficult they have five tenses and many of the pronunciations are gutteral sounds. It is very difficult to learn as an adult.

I've heard that one nearly has to grow up with the language to learn it. Nevertheless, the discipline of trying to learn the language speaks volumes to your respect for those folks and their culture. That is the Christ-like thing to do. I'm sure God will continue to bless/use those efforts even though you are not there anymore.

 

[TCassidy]

vote blindly for Republicans and there are few competent/qualified Democratic candidates

So which is it? Are Republicans voting blindly or are the Democrats failing to field competent/qualified candidates?

 

[Baptist Believer]

So which is it? Are Republicans voting blindly or are the Democrats failing to field competent/qualified candidates?

At this point, it's both.

Originally, it was blindly voting for Republicans in reacting to the disaster that was Ann Richards, but the Democratic Party in Texas has very little talent.

 

[carpro]

I'm not going to waste m energy getting ticked because the family sitting at the next table at Mickey D's isn't speaking English.

Neither will I. But, if two people (1 co worker and 1 supervisor) sitting at a table with me, who both speak perfect English, begin to converse with each other in Spanish, it is rude. It happened to me 3 days ago. I got up and moved.

They noticed and asked why. I told them. I think they were both embarrassed. The supervisor, in particular, should have known better.

 

[ChrisTheSaved]

I don't care if you are purple and green stripes, you sure make it sound like an issue of ethnicity
.

Yes you did, you stated that it was a racial fear of non whites that drove people to vote for Trump. So then you get mad when you find out I am half black and pretend you don't care. In my life I find the biggest racist to be democrats. A group of slave owners is how I see them, always wanting us back on the plantation.

One of my closest friends going through public school played soccer quite competitively through junior high and high school in Southeast Texas (Beaumont-Port Arthur area), and I went with him to soccer tournaments in Houston. That was from 1977-1984. It wasn't hugely popular, but it was a growing sport. And the teams were primarily white..

You have got to be joking right? You have never been here have you? You don't have any idea what its like not to be able to go to a park that has a soccer field because of the thousands of Hispanics do you? You truly believe that soccer is an American sport...there's no way that people from down south like to play soccer. You are so blinded by PC nonsense that you cant admit this?

Texas is quite multicultural, especially places where the energy and technology industry (think NASA) is strong. I also know that a lot of white people in the area separate themselves from non-whites, some of it just happens and some of it is quite intentional.

Except for all of the people who said race was an issue when they voted for Trump. Listen, I know lots of people who voted for Trump are not racists, but a lot of them are. When you come on here and compare "Hispanics" to locusts, I think you need to look at your attitudes.

I have experienced racism in my life and I can say that I went four different Trump rallies and the only racist I saw where those protesting him. I was always made to feel welcome as did the tons of mixed race, black and Hispanic people that were there. If you watched the media you would have never known that through.

Also I am certain locust have no race.

I once saw a an TV show clip were a bunch of liberals were in a room and were identifying racist phrases, they would pick stuff such as apple picker, spoon face, etc. When you look for race everywhere you will find it.

So you are blaming "Hispanics" for your inability to compete in the open marketplace?

I compete with "them" for jobs and work. I am a white male and I have been obliquely told that I am not the color of person that a firm is looking to hire. In regard to business for my firm, we face a legal disadvantage to winning jobs because we are not minority-owned. I get it. But you have to step up your game and add value to what you bring to a potential employer/client.

Yes I am blaming Hispanics for the inability of many blacks and whites to compete in the work place. You are so privileged you are blind to the sufferings of many in this country. First off you are a white man, secondly you have a college education. Many young black men have to take those jobs that Hispanics take. But what happens when the intercity youth cant take those first steps because that manager at McDonalds is Hispanic and hires all Hispanics that speak Spanish? I guess a young uneducated black youth is going to take the time to learn Spanish right?

Many people have to compete with these people, were not talking about office Jobs. Not every America is able to mentally and physically to rise to the top. In truth a great deal of Americans will never make it into middle class. That's not because they are lazy or will never try.

You are the product of propaganda my friend. You think of everyone as having the same abilities and in the real world that is not true. People will struggle and your lack of understanding scares me, you need to be able to place yourself into the shoes of an American and stop watching CNN and MSNBC and even FOX.

I love legal immigration, I want the best from everywhere! I want the Doctors and engineers and all the top people from around the globe. My best friend is of Mexican descent and he does not speak Spanish and his family has been here for hundreds of years and if you want to meet a person who hates immigrants its that guy. When we go somewhere the first thing every Hispanic does is try to speak Spanish to him. When he says he does not they switch to English.

As he explains it, they are rejecting our American culture (he sounds like a hick btw) and are building a new Mexico in its place. A whole culture within a culture that they get to live and in, but yet they want to have the opportunities our culture provides them. Yet they do not wish to actively join in the latter.

 

[Use of Time]

Yes you did, you stated that it was a racial fear of non whites that drove people to vote for Trump. So then you get mad when you find out I am half black and pretend you don't care. In my life I find the biggest racist to be democrats. A group of slave owners is how I see them, always wanting us back on the plantation.




You have got to be joking right? You have never been here have you? You don't have any idea what its like not to be able to go to a park that has a soccer field because of the thousands of Hispanics do you? You truly believe that soccer is an American sport...there's no way that people from down south like to play soccer. You are so blinded by PC nonsense that you cant admit this?






I have experienced racism in my life and I can say that I went four different Trump rallies and the only racist I saw where those protesting him. I was always made to feel welcome as did the tons of mixed race, black and Hispanic people that were there. If you watched the media you would have never known that through.

Also I am certain locust have no race.

I once saw a an TV show clip were a bunch of liberals were in a room and were identifying racist phrases, they would pick stuff such as apple picker, spoon face, etc. When you look for race everywhere you will find it.





Yes I am blaming Hispanics for the inability of many blacks and whites to compete in the work place. You are so privileged you are blind to the sufferings of many in this country. First off you are a white man, secondly you have a college education. Many young black men have to take those jobs that Hispanics take. But what happens when the intercity youth cant take those first steps because that manager at McDonalds is Hispanic and hires all Hispanics that speak Spanish? I guess a young uneducated black youth is going to take the time to learn Spanish right?

Many people have to compete with these people, were not talking about office Jobs. Not every America is able to mentally and physically to rise to the top. In truth a great deal of Americans will never make it into middle class. That's not because they are lazy or will never try.

You are the product of propaganda my friend. You think of everyone as having the same abilities and in the real world that is not true. People will struggle and your lack of understanding scares me, you need to be able to place yourself into the shoes of an American and stop watching CNN and MSNBC and even FOX.

I love legal immigration, I want the best from everywhere! I want the Doctors and engineers and all the top people from around the globe. My best friend is of Mexican descent and he does not speak Spanish and his family has been here for hundreds of years and if you want to meet a person who hates immigrants its that guy. When we go somewhere the first thing every Hispanic does is try to speak Spanish to him. When he says he does not they switch to English.

As he explains it, they are rejecting our American culture (he sounds like a hick btw) and are building a new Mexico in its place. A whole culture within a culture that they get to live and in, but yet they want to have the opportunities our culture provides them. Yet they do not wish to actively join in the latter.

Blaming other races for your inability to compete almost sounds...liberal?

 

[carpro]

Pretending illegal immigrants don't take any jobs young blacks would also take sounds even more liberal.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Yes you did, you stated that it was a racial fear of non whites that drove people to vote for Trump. So then you get mad when you find out I am half black and pretend you don't care.

(1) Racial fear of non whites is what drove a significant number of people to vote for Trump.
(2) I'm not mad at all. My brother-in-law is black and I have nephews who have a black father and white mother. By the way, you are only "half black" if that is the way you see yourself. Of my nephews (with the same set of parents), one identifies as white, one as mixed, and the other identified as black. All three are right.
(3) Your ethnic identity doesn't mean a thing since I have always based what you wrote on the content of your words, not on my assumptions of your ethnic heritage.

In my life I find the biggest racist to be democrats. A group of slave owners is how I see them, always wanting us back on the plantation.

I don't think I can make the distinctions like you have, but I have known many "liberals" who don't want anything to do with black folks except to feel guilty about them. They won't even have a conversation, much less invest in their lives. There is prejudice across the political spectrum.

You have got to be joking right?

Not one bit.

You have never been here have you?

In addition to growing up in Southeast Texas, I am in Houston four to six times a year. I have been in Houston twice within the last five weeks alone. Moreover, I have lived in Texas all of my life.

I realize that you know everything, and those of us who disagree with you must be liars, but that's the way it is.

You don't have any idea what its like not to be able to go to a park that has a soccer field because of the thousands of Hispanics do you?

I have been to crowded parks many times. You seem to have a specific incident or incidents in mind.

You truly believe that soccer is an American sport...

I never made the claim that it is a sport created and played exclusively in the United States. It is, however, a worldwide sport that was relatively late becoming popular in the United States because of American-style football.

...there's no way that people from down south like to play soccer.

I'm trying to figure out why I wasted so many hours in the early 1980s standing in fields kicking a ball around (or watching people kick a ball around) in the hot Southeast Texas sun and humidity. Moreover, why my wife played soccer when she was in high school (late 1980s).

You need to realize that soccer may not have been played in some small towns in Southeast Texas, but in the larger metropolitan areas, it was a thing.

You are so blinded by PC nonsense that you cant admit this?

So my choices are to lie and please you, or to tell the truth and have you claim that I am "blinded by PC nonsense?"

Here's a third choice: You don't know what you're talking about.

I have experienced racism in my life...

I actually have too since some extended family members did not like the fact that my mother was not born in the United States - my brother and I were considered half-breeds. I have also experienced ethnic prejudice from ethnic minorities more than a few times. It's part of the fallen human condition.

...and I can say that I went four different Trump rallies and the only racist I saw where those protesting him. I was always made to feel welcome as did the tons of mixed race, black and Hispanic people that were there. If you watched the media you would have never known that through.

That has no bearing on the numerous people who are part of white supremacist/identity organizations that enthusiastically endorsed Trump.

Also I am certain locust have no race.

I am also certain that one who compares "Hispanics" to locusts needs to examine their attitudes quite carefully. You attitudes may be influencing how you perceive reality.

I once saw a an TV show clip were a bunch of liberals were in a room and were identifying racist phrases, they would pick stuff such as apple picker, spoon face, etc. When you look for race everywhere you will find it.

When you look for reasons to be contemptuous of "Hispanic" people, you will find them.

Yes I am blaming Hispanics for the inability of many blacks and whites to compete in the work place.

Glad we can agree on something.

You are so privileged you are blind to the sufferings of many in this country. First off you are a white man, secondly you have a college education.

As a white man, I could not take advantage of the financial aid available to minority students and had to work my way through college. It took me 5 1/2 years to get my undergraduate degree because of my work schedule, and I always took at least one summer session with multiple classes. A number of my minority friends had grants and scholarships paying most of their expenses, allowing them to get through school much faster than I did. I just had one small scholarship that essentially covered part of my housing when I lived in the dorm. Later, I became a resident assistant and received free housing at the cost of many late nights and disciplinary issues occupying my study/work/sleep time.

All that hard work didn't seem like privilege.

Many young black men have to take those jobs that Hispanics take. But what happens when the intercity youth cant take those first steps because that manager at McDonalds is Hispanic and hires all Hispanics that speak Spanish? I guess a young uneducated black youth is going to take the time to learn Spanish right?

Serving the public can require a certain set of skills. I never had a glamorous job working in fast food. I cleaned up construction sites (scraped mud off of roads with a shovel, cleaned newly constructed homes, picked up construction debris and put it in bins, etc.), cut grass for a whole neighborhood (in Southeast Texas, that's a once-a-week-per-customer job), worked as a custodian for a church with a daycare (cleaning toilets, taking out huge trash bags of dirty diapers, waxing floors, vacuuming, arranging furniture), and then worked in a warehouse unloading trucks and pulling merchandise, racing against the clock, for customers. After college, I worked in commission sales for a major retailer, and as a security officer at a private school for wealthy families. In that last role, I was often assumed to be an idiot and frequently had people talk down to me since I was considered socially, morally and intellectually inferior to the wealthy.

Many people have to compete with these people, were not talking about office Jobs. Not every America is able to mentally and physically to rise to the top. In truth a great deal of Americans will never make it into middle class. That's not because they are lazy or will never try.

I get it, but there are ways to navigate the job market if you are determined. I was in my early 30s before I landed a "white collar" job where I was able to start using some of my potential. Before that, I was simply used for my muscles, not my mind (although good security officers use their mind quite a bit more than people might suspect).

You are the product of propaganda my friend. You think of everyone as having the same abilities and in the real world that is not true

No, I am the victim of your assertions. I have never made such a ridiculous claim.

People will struggle and your lack of understanding scares me, you need to be able to place yourself into the shoes of an American and stop watching CNN and MSNBC and even FOX.

I am an American and I don't watch cable news - period. You are arguing against someone, but it isn't me.

I love legal immigration, I want the best from everywhere! I want the Doctors and engineers and all the top people from around the globe. My best friend is of Mexican descent and he does not speak Spanish and his family has been here for hundreds of years...

I know more than a few people like that.

...and if you want to meet a person who hates immigrants its that guy.

And I know quite a few people like that too.

When we go somewhere the first thing every Hispanic does is try to speak Spanish to him. When he says he does not they switch to English.

I can see what that might be frustrating to him, but what does that have to do with this conversation?

As he explains it, they are rejecting our American culture (he sounds like a hick btw) and are building a new Mexico in its place. A whole culture within a culture that they get to live and in, but yet they want to have the opportunities our culture provides them. Yet they do not wish to actively join in the latter.

That's a broad brush you are painting with. Are there people like that? Sure. The East Coast and West Coast are filled with neighborhoods that are primarily one ethnicity. There are varying reasons for it, including discriminatory housing laws and the practices of some landlords (Trump got in trouble for that and was fine, BTW), but the neighborhoods often serve as a springboard for people who are entering our society to get acclimated to the US and then move on.

My mother's family came here with no money, not knowing the language, and had no support whatsoever. They would have loved to have had a same-language/culture community to help them figure things out, but instead they had to do it on their own.

So you really haven't addressed your comparison of "Hispanics" to locusts... Can you at least admit that it made you sound like a hater of Latinos?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I can't speak for Texas. But, I earned my letter in high school as manager of the varsity soccer team in 1970. At that time, on the San Francisco Peninsula, the core of soccer interest was the German and Italian communities.

 

[ChrisTheSaved]

(1) Racial fear of non whites is what drove a significant number of people to vote for Trump.
(2) I'm not mad at all. My brother-in-law is black and I have nephews who have a black father and white mother. By the way, you are only "half black" if that is the way you see yourself. Of my nephews (with the same set of parents), one identifies as white, one as mixed, and the other identified as black. All three are right.
(3) Your ethnic identity doesn't mean a thing since I have always based what you wrote on the content of your words, not on my assumptions of your ethnic heritage.


I don't think I can make the distinctions like you have, but I have known many "liberals" who don't want anything to do with black folks except to feel guilty about them. They won't even have a conversation, much less invest in their lives. There is prejudice across the political spectrum.


Not one bit.


In addition to growing up in Southeast Texas, I am in Houston four to six times a year. I have been in Houston twice within the last five weeks alone. Moreover, I have lived in Texas all of my life.

I realize that you know everything, and those of us who disagree with you must be liars, but that's the way it is.


I have been to crowded parks many times. You seem to have a specific incident or incidents in mind.


I never made the claim that it is a sport created and played exclusively in the United States. It is, however, a worldwide sport that was relatively late becoming popular in the United States because of American-style football.


I'm trying to figure out why I wasted so many hours in the early 1980s standing in fields kicking a ball around (or watching people kick a ball around) in the hot Southeast Texas sun and humidity. Moreover, why my wife played soccer when she was in high school (late 1980s).

You need to realize that soccer may not have been played in some small towns in Southeast Texas, but in the larger metropolitan areas, it was a thing.


So my choices are to lie and please you, or to tell the truth and have you claim that I am "blinded by PC nonsense?"

Here's a third choice: You don't know what you're talking about.


I actually have too since some extended family members did not like the fact that my mother was not born in the United States - my brother and I were considered half-breeds. I have also experienced ethnic prejudice from ethnic minorities more than a few times. It's part of the fallen human condition.


That has no bearing on the numerous people who are part of white supremacist/identity organizations that enthusiastically endorsed Trump.


I am also certain that one who compares "Hispanics" to locusts needs to examine their attitudes quite carefully. You attitudes may be influencing how you perceive reality.


When you look for reasons to be contemptuous of "Hispanic" people, you will find them.


Glad we can agree on something.


As a white man, I could not take advantage of the financial aid available to minority students and had to work my way through college. It took me 5 1/2 years to get my undergraduate degree because of my work schedule, and I always took at least one summer session with multiple classes. A number of my minority friends had grants and scholarships paying most of their expenses, allowing them to get through school much faster than I did. I just had one small scholarship that essentially covered part of my housing when I lived in the dorm. Later, I became a resident assistant and received free housing at the cost of many late nights and disciplinary issues occupying my study/work/sleep time.

All that hard work didn't seem like privilege.


Serving the public can require a certain set of skills. I never had a glamorous job working in fast food. I cleaned up construction sites (scraped mud off of roads with a shovel, cleaned newly constructed homes, picked up construction debris and put it in bins, etc.), cut grass for a whole neighborhood (in Southeast Texas, that's a once-a-week-per-customer job), worked as a custodian for a church with a daycare (cleaning toilets, taking out huge trash bags of dirty diapers, waxing floors, vacuuming, arranging furniture), and then worked in a warehouse unloading trucks and pulling merchandise, racing against the clock, for customers. After college, I worked in commission sales for a major retailer, and as a security officer at a private school for wealthy families. In that last role, I was often assumed to be an idiot and frequently had people talk down to me since I was considered socially, morally and intellectually inferior to the wealthy.


I get it, but there are ways to navigate the job market if you are determined. I was in my early 30s before I landed a "white collar" job where I was able to start using some of my potential. Before that, I was simply used for my muscles, not my mind (although good security officers use their mind quite a bit more than people might suspect).


No, I am the victim of your assertions. I have never made such a ridiculous claim.


I am an American and I don't watch cable news - period. You are arguing against someone, but it isn't me.


I know more than a few people like that.


And I know quite a few people like that too.


I can see what that might be frustrating to him, but what does that have to do with this conversation?


That's a broad brush you are painting with. Are there people like that? Sure. The East Coast and West Coast are filled with neighborhoods that are primarily one ethnicity. There are varying reasons for it, including discriminatory housing laws and the practices of some landlords (Trump got in trouble for that and was fine, BTW), but the neighborhoods often serve as a springboard for people who are entering our society to get acclimated to the US and then move on.

My mother's family came here with no money, not knowing the language, and had no support whatsoever. They would have loved to have had a same-language/culture community to help them figure things out, but instead they had to do it on their own.

So you really haven't addressed your comparison of "Hispanics" to locusts... Can you at least admit that it made you sound like a hater of Latinos?

Your sir are totally absolutely not in your right mind if you in anyway believe that immigration does not hurt those vulnerable workers we have here in the US. How is the comparison of locust and Hispanics racial? I'm done with you as you are arguing by fallacies.

Congrats on knowing a black person btw. I guess you have it all figured out. Let's just open our immigration to India and see how long middle class tech workers last.

 

[Rolfe]

Your sir are totally absolutely not in your right mind if you in anyway believe that immigration does not hurt those vulnerable workers we have here in the US. How is the comparison of locust and Hispanics racial? I'm done with you as you are arguing by fallacies.

Congrats on knowing a black person btw. I guess you have it all figured out. Let's just open our immigration to India and see how long middle class tech workers last.

So much growling... Someone needs a warm, soothing cup of herbal tea.

 

[HankD]

Your sir are totally absolutely not in your right mind if you in anyway believe that immigration does not hurt those vulnerable workers we have here in the US. How is the comparison of locust and Hispanics racial? I'm done with you as you are arguing by fallacies.

Congrats on knowing a black person btw. I guess you have it all figured out. Let's just open our immigration to India and see how long middle class tech workers last.

India started seriously competing with us for Information Technology (IT) positions in the 1980's.

I worked as a contract software engineer in Woburn MA (DEC) when a large group of Asian Indians suddenly showed up and many of the American engineers got the boot. I and a few others were allowed to remain because of our knowledge of the various systems.

I ended up being scheduled to teach them (Asian Indians) much of what I knew PLUS I/we who remained had to bow to their customs and culture. Don't talk to any of the women alone, always have an Indian male present. Don't eat meat or even talk about it in front of them. Don't talk differences in culture especially RELIGION! Don't, don't, don't... We were watched.

I left almost immediately, (3 weeks later) they had breached my contract by changing my project description.

Further implications - we (American IT contractors ) had to drastically reduce our rates to be able to work.
Asian Indians seemed to have a rule - offer their services at 50% of the going American IT engineers rate.

To be forthright the Indian IT engineers were sharp as the proverbial tack!
There was virtually nothing they wouldn't/couldn't tackle and succeed at.

One cultural issue which was infuriating to me was their cultural class differences. There is a class (or non-class) called the Dalit or "untouchables". They were those who weren't even part of the cast system they were so low on the totem pole.

The Indian contract supervisors at another facility (State Department) were angry with me because I would shake hands with Dalit, eat with them and even discuss religion with them!

No one ever called me down for it. But they partnered me with a young Dalit man, super talented.
I was 3o plus years his senior and I learned some good IT techniques from him.

And yes I did discuss religion and Jesus Christ with him.

He showed polite interest and he was very fond of me because I treated him as an equal, which much to their shame the other Americans including supervisors did not and some even treated him like DIRT for which I loudly complained!

Sorry for the rant, OK I'm not sorry

HankD

 

[Baptist Believer]

Your sir are totally absolutely not in your right mind if you in anyway believe that immigration does not hurt those vulnerable workers we have here in the US.

ANY new workers can harm vulnerable workers in free market economy. Vulnerable workers need to become less vulnerable to younger and cheaper labor (no matter where is comes from) by adding value to the employment equation. There's lots of ways to do that. But if what you do is a simple service commodity, then that is a difficult challenge. Your real challenge is not immigrants, but younger people straight out of school who have fewer financial responsibilities and can afford to work for much less. Unions used to control access to labor so that it was not a commodity, but the connections of the modern world make it easier to export labor - especially manufacturing - where a manufacturer can get more value for the labor dollar.

As someone who works in the engineering/construction industry, I know there is a value in having more experienced/skilled workers on the project. At the same time, we have lots of people coming up from Central America and Mexico who are highly skilled in those trades - especially stone, tile and brick work - and many of those persons are legal.

I have no doubt you are having some challenges, but blaming others is not the way to succeed.

[quote/]How is the comparison of locust and Hispanics racial?[/quote]
It's one of the classic ways of racially demeaning people of other enthnicities in order to justify inhuman treatment. Black folks have suffered for centuries from racists and slave holder from comparing them to monkeys, and Jews were often portrayed as rats by Nazis (made it easier to "exterminate" them). I could go on and on.

I'm done with you as you are arguing by fallacies.

Okay, that's your choice. Making allegations doesn't make them true. We all have to deal with truth at some point. It's easier to come to terms with it on our own instead of being faced with it by life-threatening circumstances or the final judgement.

Congrats on knowing a black person btw.

I realize that's supposed to be a put down, but I to have friends of all different ethnicities. I have African-Americans, Koreans, various flavors of white people, and persons of "mixed" ethnicities as close family members. There are also three difference "native" languages spoken among us. What I have learned from this is that we are all people. There may be some cultural differences, but our commonalities override everything else.

I guess you have it all figured out.

Of course I don't, but you don't either. Your simplistic racial thinking won't get you anywhere or bring you success. I do know that much.

Let's just open our immigration to India and see how long middle class tech workers last.

We already do that. The result is an expanded and more vibrant economy. Remember, the economy grows as more skilled workers are added to it, creating more economic opportunities.

 

[Jedi Knight]

It seems to me that we have two different issues here.

1. Illegal immigration.

2. English language.

I am against illegal immigration while being in favor of legal immigration. My father immigrated to this country in 1924, legally.

And when you come LEGALLY you learn English as part of assimilation......illegals don't assimilate thus there is a direct connection. BTW look for jobs in Houston and many want Bilingual "code word for Spanish" for normal jobs to cater to illegals and thus throwing English speaking citizens under the bus!

 

[TCassidy]

Why would anyone in his right mind want to go to Houston? Arm pit of Texas (the other, left, arm pit is Austin).

And, if you don't like Hispanics, or hearing the Spanish language, Texas is probably not the place for you to live.