The War on the Poor: The Potential Impact of the Proposed Budget Cuts by Republicans

[targus]

Thats the government line. But in reality what are they? Here is a good working definition of income tax
Question. Are social security payments imposed by the government? Are they based on financial income? Are you required to fill out a return indicating your payment amount? Are these funds used to fund government activities and serve the public?

Again a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Dictionary definitions are not relevant.

The letter of law is the controlling authority in this area.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Dictionary definitions are not relevant.

The letter of law is the controlling authority in this area.

Laws are the basis of regulation. Defiition defines words. Income tax is defined in a particular manner by definition. IRS interprets law and implements and administers regulations. Simple as that.

 

[targus]

Laws are the basis of regulation. Defiition defines words. Income tax is defined in a particular manner by definition. IRS interprets law and implements and administers regulations. Simple as that.

Definitions vary by source.

Taxes are a matter of law.

Try going to tax court with a dictionary definition of taxes as opposed to the IRS regulations and see how far you get.

BTW how much of a refund of your social security "income taxes" did you get this year?

Did you include withheld social security taxes in the amount that you paid or withheld in order to calculate your refund on your 1040?

Why not?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Definitions vary by source.

Taxes are a matter of law.

Try going to tax court with a dictionary definition of taxes as opposed to the IRS regulations and see how far you get.

BTW how much of a refund of your social security "income taxes" did you get this year?

Did you include withheld social security taxes in the amount that you paid or withheld in order to calculate your refund on your 1040?

Why not?

Nope. But refunds aren't the basis of tax. Income is. My payment to social security is based on my income. Its not a set fee but graduated based on my income. The money doesn't come back to me as it would in insurance. It goes to fund government certain other specified government activities. Therefore its not really insurance no matter what the IRS says. Its in reality a tax. However, my experience with our judicial system is that it doesn't always deal with reality but what they want reality to be therefore it isn't a good determining factor on whether social security is a tax.

I know several IRS agents and its important to understand they get bonuses for every error they find on returns in favor of you loosing more money to the government. However, errors found in favor of you recieving a larger refund are often ignored or over looked. Managers often got bonuses dependent on how many errors they can find in favor of them in their unit. You can see how this may lead to... shall we say... discoveries less than exactly...totally honest. And the less the tax payer knows the better. This is the agency you rely on for definition. Of course their propaganda tries to make you believe your paying into an insurance program rather than a tax.

The government would also like you to believe you own your property (save for those states that don't have a property tax) even though you pay taxes on it. The fact they can evict you for not paying taxes on the land that you "own" shows what it really is...a rental property. You are renting land from the government. But no they insist you own your land but they can force you to do to it what ever they want you to do to your "property". You don't really therefore own it.

Listen to the government and lawyers long enough and they'll convince you black is white.

 

[targus]

Nope. But refunds aren't the basis of tax. Income is. My payment to social security is based on my income. Its not a set fee but graduated based on my income. The money doesn't come back to me as it would in insurance. It goes to fund government certain other specified government activities. Therefore its not really insurance no matter what the IRS says. Its in reality a tax.

Yes it is a tax and it is calulated as a percentage of earned income - but it is not an income tax.

It is not charged on dividend income - it is not charged on interest income - it is not charged on rental income - it is not charged on royalty income - etc.

Let it go - you are looking less than knowledgable here - to put it politely.

You have not a clue of what you are talking about and are just making it up as you go.

BTW where does the IRS call Social Security "insurance"?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Yes it is a tax and it is calulated as a percentage of earned income - but it is not an income tax.

A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. It is still an income tax.

It is not charged on dividend income - it is not charged on interest income - it is not charged on rental income - it is not charged on royalty income - etc.

Call it earned income tax then.

Let it go - you are looking less than knowledgable here - to put it politely.

Never claimed to be an expert. But call it as I see it.

You have not a clue of what you are talking about and are just making it up as you go.

nt. I have a little bit of a clue. Maybe not much of one but still a little bit.

BTW where does the IRS call Social Security "insurance"?

in the original act. section 702 of the 1935 act. also in 42 USC § 401.

 

[targus]

A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. It is still an income tax.

Never claimed to be an expert. But call it as I see it. I have a little bit of a clue. Maybe not much of one but still a little bit.

Whatever, dude.

Next you'll be telling me that a zebra is a horse because that's what it looks like to you.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Whatever, dude.

Next you'll be telling me that a zebra is a horse because that's what it looks like to you.

Hey, your the one refusing to acknowledge that social security is a tax. Based on earnings or income.

 

[LadyEagle]

3-page notice - this thread will be closed no earlier than 3:00 a.m. ET by one of the moderators. LE

 

[InTheLight]

The fact they can evict you for not paying taxes on the land that you "own" shows what it really is...a rental property.

I'm trying to understand this. Under what scenario would the IRS evict you for not paying property taxes?

 

[targus]

Hey, your the one refusing to acknowledge that social security is a tax. Based on earnings or income.

You need to read with more care.

I have said that it is a TAX.

But it is NOT and INCOME TAX.

(Your homemade definition not withstanding)

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You need to read with more care.

I have said that it is a TAX.

But it is NOT and INCOME TAX.

(Your homemade definition not withstanding)

It was not my "homemade" definition. It was a defintion provide by investopedia. However, if you would prefer a more broad definition by the free online dictionary I can provide that as well

A tax levied on net personal or business income

or how about investor words. com?

income tax
state income taxnet incomeDefinition
Annual tax levied by the Federal government, most states, and some local governments, on an individual's or corporation's net profit.


Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/2411/income_tax.html#ixzz1uNEYNFTJ

or how about dictionary.com?

a tax levied on incomes, especially an annual government tax on personal incomes.

or how about the business dictionary?

income tax
trickle down theoryaccumulating sharesDefinitionAnnual charge levied on both earned income (wages, salaries, commission) and unearned income (dividends, interest, rents). In addition to financing a government's operations, progressive income taxation is designed to distribute wealth more evenly in a population, and to serve as automatic fiscal stabilizer to cushion the effects of economic cycles. Its two basic types are (1) Personal income tax, levied on incomes of individuals, households, partnerships, and sole-proprietorships; and (2) Corporation income tax, levied on profits (net earnings) of incorporated firms. However, presence of tax loopholes (whose number increases in direct proportion to the complexity of tax code) may allow some wealthy persons to escape higher taxes without violating the letter of the tax laws.


Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/income-tax.html#ixzz1uNF7xqIL

It seems to me there is a trend. A charge, levied by the government based on income or profit. Is the general definition. That certainly seems to me to fit the bill.

And with certain adjustments to the original act, it seems to me that Social Security is an amount levied by the government from its citizens based on individual's incomes which then goes to fund government activities designed to redistribute wealth in the population. It seems pretty straight forward. It's a income tax (earned for your benefit). However, the greater the chance that I'll recieve financial support from this program in my old age or retirement. I'll call it what it was origninally meant to be: the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program. However, the likelyhood that I'll never see anything from it will continue to make me view it as it actually is an earned income tax. Especially when I see crack heads who never paid into the program recieve frunds from it.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm trying to understand this. Under what scenario would the IRS evict you for not paying property taxes?

I don't blame the IRS for evicting you for not paying property taxes. That blame goes to the local and state govenments. The federal government has its own issue with imminent domain.

 

[LadyEagle]

Closed per previous 3-page notice. Thanks. LE