The water supply in Bible days

[evangelist6589]

I have heard many teetotalists say that the water supply in Jesus's day was bad and so people drank wine. But then again I was reading a RC Sproul commentary on the book of John and he said this is not true as the water was fine. He also argued that John the Baptist was expected to be a teetotalist but when Christ came he would symbolize the heavenly celebration of which he did in John 2.

I do not have a bible dictionary on my phone so I am not sure who is right and who is wrong. RC Sproul makes good arguments and hence at his church they use wine in communion.

 

[Don]

Okay, serious question: Why does it matter?

 

[McCree79]

I have heard many teetotalists say that the water supply in Jesus's day was bad and so people drank wine. But then again I was reading a RC Sproul commentary on the book of John and he said this is not true as the water was fine. He also argued that John the Baptist was expected to be a teetotalist but when Christ came he would symbolize the heavenly celebration of which he did in John 2.

I do not have a bible dictionary on my phone so I am not sure who is right and who is wrong. RC Sproul makes good arguments and hence at his church they use wine in communion.

"New testament backgrounds and message" by Lea and Black also support the claim contrary to what Sproul makes. This is most likely a *regional issue in regards to water supply. Page 35 second edition. Lea and Black refer specifically to water of Ephesus as not being the best.

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[Tom Bryant]

The water issue really doesn't apply. People who live in an area get used to the bugs in the water. It's why natives to a land are fine but the visitors get "whatever's revenge"

 

[McCree79]

The water issue really doesn't apply. People who live in an area get used to the bugs in the water. It's why natives to a land are fine but the visitors get "whatever's revenge"

If the water had a high metalloid count it would certainly matter. Local immunity would not be present under such contamination.

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[Tom Bryant]

If... and that did happen in Israel, Turkey, Greece in Biblical times?

 

[blessedwife318]

Okay, serious question: Why does it matter?

Because the church he is choosing to go to and has chosen to join doesn't approve of him drinking Mike's. Also his wife does not approve of him drinking Mike's so he is trying to justify going against the church he chose to join and disrespect his wife's convictions.

 

[McCree79]

If... and that did happen in Israel, Turkey, Greece in Biblical times?

Then one could get sick from drinking too much water....


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[Revmitchell]

Okay, serious question: Why does it matter?

He needs to protect his buzz.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Then one could get sick from drinking too much water....


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My question was not clear. My question should have been clearer. Are you saying that there was a high metalloid count in Israel and the bible lands during that time?

 

[Revmitchell]

My question was not clear. My question should have been clearer. Are you saying that there was a high metalloid count in Israel and the bible lands during that time?

Rain water collected in cisterns is not the best.

 

[McCree79]

My question was not clear. My question should have been clearer. Are you saying that there was a high metalloid count in Israel and the bible lands during that time?

I would say a high probability that is correct. I am sure some area water supplies would have been toxic. John R. Williams did an extensive study of plant life and soil in the middle East. Metalloids and metals were extremely high in areas. Arsenic had mean of over 2x safe level. Peak levels reached 10x safe level. Cadmium(5xpeak), mercury(2xpeak), Beryllium(400xpeak), Thallium(38xpeak) and other toxins test dangerously high in areas of the Middle East. Well water could easily have been tainted by such contaminants.

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[Don]

I'm hoping John will answer. Why does it matter?

If the answer is, you're trying to prove to someone that it was okay to drink wine because the water was bad; well, good luck with that. Some folks, you can provide them proof all day long, and they're not gonna change their minds at all. Some folks, you can show them scripture all day long, and they're gonna hold on to their position no matter what.

So really, what does it matter? If you can't convince them, and you're just as stubborn as they are so that they can't convince you -- then shake the dust off the subject, do your drinking in private so they're not offended, smile at them when they ask if you've been drinking, and talk about the weightier matters. Like salvation.

Now, if your answer is, it's an interesting subject - well, I'd have to agree that Tom and McCree are making it interesting. Well, maybe for some. Me, my attention span's too short to start talking about how many millions per part of this or that.

 

[McCree79]

I'm hoping John will answer. Why does it matter?

If the answer is, you're trying to prove to someone that it was okay to drink wine because the water was bad; well, good luck with that. Some folks, you can provide them proof all day long, and they're not gonna change their minds at all. Some folks, you can show them scripture all day long, and they're gonna hold on to their position no matter what.

So really, what does it matter? If you can't convince them, and you're just as stubborn as they are so that they can't convince you -- then shake the dust off the subject, do your drinking in private so they're not offended, smile at them when they ask if you've been drinking, and talk about the weightier matters. Like salvation.

Now, if your answer is, it's an interesting subject - well, I'd have to agree that Tom and McCree are making it interesting. Well, maybe for some. Me, my attention span's too short to start talking about how many millions per part of this or that.

Hahaha! [emoji23] sorry to bore ya Don

Water was a topic of discussion in my new testament survey class last week. Only reason I even said anything

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[Tom Bryant]

I doubt whether the prevailing conditions of the water makes a difference in drinking wine right or wrong. If it's wrong, it would be wrong no matter the conditions of the water. If it's permissible - as I think it is - it doesn't matter the conditions of the water.

I don't drink. I cannot. For me, 1 is too many and 100 is not enough. But I don't see drinking wine as a sin, only the abuse of it.

 

[McCree79]

. If it's wrong, it would be wrong no matter the conditions of the water. If it's permissible - as I think it is - it doesn't matter the conditions of the water.

Well said

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[Baptist Believer]

I have heard many teetotalists say that the water supply in Jesus's day was bad and so people drank wine. But then again I was reading a RC Sproul commentary on the book of John and he said this is not true as the water was fine.

It's just like today. Some places have good water, others do not. You can't make blanket statements without being wrong.

He also argued that John the Baptist was expected to be a teetotalist...

Not a teetotaler, but a Nazarite. He was not supposed to even touch the vine, nor the fruit of the vine. He was not to cut his hair (any of it), and he was not to touch anything that was dead (see Numbers 6:1–21). For instance, he could NOT drink grape juice.

...but when Christ came he would symbolize the heavenly celebration of which he did in John 2.

Not only did He symbolize it, He embodied it.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Speaking of bad water, indoor plumbing in ancient times was often very bad for you. The word plumbing comes from the Greek word transliterated PLUMBUS, which is literally "lead."

It is believed that the Roman emperors were the first to enjoy the best of indoor plumbing technology and the lead poisoning tended to make them mentally-deficient and/or insane. Indoor plumbing likely had a hand in the fall of the Roman Empire.

 

[Don]

Things haven't changed a whole lot in the middle east, especially when you get away from the cities.

This is a picture of a typical toilet in Afghanistan: http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z135/edmondlau/Afghanistan/PC020161.jpg.

Yes, it's basically a hole in the ground. There is no flushing mechanism.

Because of the way they were raised to use toilets, we found ourselves hanging this sign in our "heads" (or whatever military colloquialism you want to use for "bathroom"): http://armydentistry.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/img_9465.jpg

 

[kyredneck]

Speaking of bad water, indoor plumbing in ancient times was often very bad for you. The word plumbing comes from the Greek word transliterated PLUMBUS, which is literally "lead."

It is believed that the Roman emperors were the first to enjoy the best of indoor plumbing technology and the lead poisoning tended to make them mentally-deficient and/or insane. Indoor plumbing likely had a hand in the fall of the Roman Empire.

That's interesting. I've tended to think it was the old adage "absolute power corrupts absolutely" that brought out the monster in some of these men. Lead poisoning may have played a part in that, hmmm.