The Way of the Master moment episode examining personal testimonies

[evangelist6589]

When someone gives a testimony in church do you follow the masses and applaud or do you examine the testimony to see if it's Biblical? Does the testimony mention sin, "repentance", faith, the wrath of God, future judgment, the blood of Christ, or the cross?Or is it just very eloquent with no mention of key bible teachings? If so then why applaud? Why give your support to a testimony that's not Biblical?

There goes another moment gone forever.
Go share your faith while you still have time.

 

[Darrell C]

When someone gives a testimony in church do you follow the masses and applaud or do you examine the testimony to see if it's Biblical? Does the testimony mention sin, "repentance", faith, the wrath of God, future judgment, the blood of Christ, or the cross?Or is it just very eloquent with no mention of key bible teachings? If so then why applaud? Why give your support to a testimony that's not Biblical?

There goes another moment gone forever.
Go share your faith while you still have time.

I don't really view someone giving their testimony in church as a Gospel presentation. So I am not as critical as I am of the guy standing behind the pulpit, lol.

I see a value in a babe giving testimony in church that is just as valuable as a mature brother or sister doing so, simply because it is an expression of faith. And I can't really say I have ever witnessed someone giving a testimony where they were so unbiblical it would deserve a public reprimand. At one point I refused to applaud anything, because someone had said I would "rob them of the heavenly reward, " lol. These days, I applaud when I am compelled. It's usually when I appreciate some effort offered by a member or the staff. Sometimes I don't, because I am not in agreement.

I wonder if the Pastor is taking notes...


God bless.

 

[Don]

When someone gives a testimony in church do you follow the masses and applaud or do you examine the testimony to see if it's Biblical? Does the testimony mention sin, "repentance", faith, the wrath of God, future judgment, the blood of Christ, or the cross?Or is it just very eloquent with no mention of key bible teachings? If so then why applaud? Why give your support to a testimony that's not Biblical?

There goes another moment gone forever.
Go share your faith while you still have time.

Two men, one a pharisee, went up on a hill to pray. And the pharisee said, I thank you, Lord, that I'm not like this other person.

 

[evangelist6589]

Two men, one a pharisee, went up on a hill to pray. And the pharisee said, I thank you, Lord, that I'm not like this other person.

Ever fix your computer problems?

 

[InTheLight]

Ever fix your computer problems?

Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously.

“The software is functioning as intended,” said Amber.

“Wait,” I asked, “so it’s supposed to delete my personal files from my internal hard drive without asking my permission?”

“Yes,” she replied.

I had just explained to Amber that 122 GB of music files were missing from my laptop. I’d already visited the online forum, I said, and they were no help. Although several people had described problems similar to mine, they were all dismissed by condescending “gurus” who simply said that we had mislocated our files (I had the free drive space to prove that wasn’t the case) or that we must have accidentally deleted the files ourselves (we hadn’t). Amber explained that I should blow off these dismissive “solutions” offered online because Apple employees don’t officially use the forums—evidently, that honor is reserved for lost, frustrated people like me, and (at least in this case) know-it-alls who would rather believe we were incompetent, or lying, than face the ugly truth that Apple has vastly overstepped its boundaries.

https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/



Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

 

[Don]

Ever fix your computer problems?

Yes. We told the individual to use a real computer.

Now, rather than let you derail your own thread, I take it you understand why I wrote what I did as a response to you?

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes. We told the individual to use a real computer.

Now, rather than let you derail your own thread, I take it you understand why I wrote what I did as a response to you?

In the business world and in a business environment Windows may indeed be the better system.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes. We told the individual to use a real computer.

Now, rather than let you derail your own thread, I take it you understand why I wrote what I did as a response to you?

Yes I understand. You wrote it in sarcasm.

 

[Don]

Yes I understand. You wrote it in sarcasm.

Nope, not in sarcasm.

 

[evangelist6589]

Nope, not in sarcasm.

Then explain why you wrote it.

 

[Don]

"Why give your support to a testimony that's not biblical?"

When you were first saved, did you know all the "right words" to say? Or was your heart so glad, so joyful, that you just told people about Jesus?

Did you have to be taught to use the "right words"? Does everyone have the same access to those same teachers, or do some emphasize different things?

And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge another's heart and/or salvation?

I wrote it to ask you to think deeply about what you posted. When we sit in judgment on another because of what they say, or don't say, then which are we: the publican or the pharisee?

 

[annsni]

Unless someone got up and said "I'm so glad I saved myself and can live a perfect life," I don't critique their testimony. Every single person has their own testimony of how Jesus caught their hearts and I can't tell them their story is wrong unless they are truly not saved but I've never once in all of my years heard a testimony of someone who is clearly not saved.

 

[Darrell C]

And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge another's heart and/or salvation?

I wrote it to ask you to think deeply about what you posted. When we sit in judgment on another because of what they say, or don't say, then which are we: the publican or the pharisee?

I think this goes a little too far into denying a responsibility we have, not only to those we suspect are not saved (which is evidenced usually in the "fruit" they produce), but also to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

There is a Biblical standard by which we are instructed that does not allow for the tolerance of false doctrine or practice. When someone is in error and conveying that error so as to either pollute Pure Doctrine or the fellowships we belong to...they should be dealt with. And relying on the leadership to take care of this does not correlate to the interaction between two brothers who are to, if it is serious enough, take it before others. That process involves witnesses, which includes others in the rectifying of the issue.

I agree, we do not lightly judge the spiritual condition of others, but, when they make it obvious through their words or deeds, and we do not address that error, then it is we, Ibelieve, who shall come under greater condemnation (judgment).

I wonder, if the OP was directed at the actual messages taught in Church, if we would be diligent enough to address that particular error, and if so, how?


God bless.

 

[Don]

I think this goes a little too far into denying a responsibility we have, not only to those we suspect are not saved (which is evidenced usually in the "fruit" they produce), but also to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I bolded and underlined the main point that needs to be addressed. In the context of the opening post, a person is giving their testimony; and the gist of the opening post is judging their salvation by what they say in the few minutes it takes for them to make their declaration.

What you describe is not arguable, and is actually how we should judge righteous judgment; but requires time and interaction, to actually be able to assess the fruit.

As you allude, we need to NOT rely on superficial interaction in our judgments.

And THAT is the point of my posts in this thread.

 

[Darrell C]

I bolded and underlined the main point that needs to be addressed. In the context of the opening post, a person is giving their testimony; and the gist of the opening post is judging their salvation by what they say in the few minutes it takes for them to make their declaration.

While I can understand you response is primarily centered on the criticism of a babe, when you go on to say...

And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge another's heart and/or salvation?

I wrote it to ask you to think deeply about what you posted. When we sit in judgment on another because of what they say, or don't say, then which are we: the publican or the pharisee?

...it leaves a broader impression that judging is wrong, and this in general. The implication is that if one judges, they are like unto the Pharisee.

That is not the case.

You do not say "And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge a new believer's heart and/or salvation?" but, "And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge another's heart and/or salvation?"

What you describe is not arguable, and is actually how we should judge righteous judgment; but requires time and interaction, to actually be able to assess the fruit.

It is arguable, lol. Aren't we arguing about it?



So let's consider someone professing Christ, getting baptized, and then standing up and saying "I am so glad I was saved, because before I felt no love of God or for God because I thought He was against me cheating on my wife with my boyfriend."

Are you going to judge such a statement?

Or, for fear of being perceived as a Pharisee, are you going to reserve judgment until you have established a better relationship with this fellow?

As you allude, we need to NOT rely on superficial interaction in our judgments.

I agree.

And I made it clear I actually view the testimony of a babe as an expression of faith. I do not judge them as I do the guy standing behind the pulpit. And if it was that guy that has encouraged the testimony which is wrong, then I judge...why I am even a part of that fellowship. lol

We, as Christians, are not excluded from judgment, nor are we excused to judge righteously, and unfortunately...sometimes that is going to offend. But we don't do anyone any favors by overlooking error.

And THAT is the point of my posts in this thread.

Fair enough.


God bless.

 

[evangelist6589]

"Why give your support to a testimony that's not biblical?"

When you were first saved, did you know all the "right words" to say? Or was your heart so glad, so joyful, that you just told people about Jesus?

Did you have to be taught to use the "right words"? Does everyone have the same access to those same teachers, or do some emphasize different things?

And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge another's heart and/or salvation?

I wrote it to ask you to think deeply about what you posted. When we sit in judgment on another because of what they say, or don't say, then which are we: the publican or the pharisee?

No as a babe I do not have all the right words and why I would not label others as false converts. But doctrine does matter. Doctrine does mean something and while it may not mean much to you, God gave us an entire book on doctrine called Romans.

Babes can be taught better in the church no doubt but in the meantime why applaud a testimony that is not Biblical?

I think a key problem in church is a lack of doctrine. Do churches teach systematic theology and basic theology these days? Very few unfortunately so no wonder people are ignorant.

 

[InTheLight]

No as a babe I do not have all the right words and why I would not label others as false converts. But doctrine does matter. Doctrine does mean something and while it may not mean much to you,

Why do you write stuff like this? Nowhere does Don indicate that doctrine doesn't matter to him. He's merely pointing out not to be hard on new converts and their understanding of scripture.

 

[Don]

No as a babe I do not have all the right words and why I would not label others as false converts. But doctrine does matter. Doctrine does mean something and while it may not mean much to you, God gave us an entire book on doctrine called Romans.

Babes can be taught better in the church no doubt but in the meantime why applaud a testimony that is not Biblical?

I think a key problem in church is a lack of doctrine. Do churches teach systematic theology and basic theology these days? Very few unfortunately so no wonder people are ignorant.

ITL answered better than I will; but I'm gonna answer anyway.

In the context of your opening post, how long have the testimony-givers had to study and understand the doctrine of Romans?

If only a short time, will their understanding not change and mature as they grow and mature in the Lord? If so, is their testimony worthless until they've matured to an acceptable level?

If after a long period of time, and their testimony still sounds like that of a babe in Christ, is that because they've reached their maximum level of understanding? Is their testimony then worthless?

How do we know they've reached their maximum level of understanding? Because we've taken the time to know them. How do we know their testimony has matured? Because we've known them for a while, and taught them, and worked with them.

These are just two of the arguments I could work into this.

If you don't know the person, but you refuse to applaud their testimony because they don't use the words you want to hear--are you the pharisee or the publican?

All the pharisee knew about the other man was that he was a publican; yet, which one did Jesus say went away justified?
-----
Doctrine is important to ALL of us. Your little snipes at me, rather than discussing your arguments, only point out your immaturity.

I countered your opening post with a parable from Jesus Himself pointing out the hypocrisy of raising yourself above others because you're more religious than they are, and you immediately decided I was being sarcastic, and obviously got your feelings hurt.

My sole intent at the time was to get you to think about the subject from another angle, in a different way; but you prefer to think the worst of those that disagree with you, rather than accept the challenge, defend yourself, and possibly change others' minds in the process.

Get a thicker skin, and be prepared to defend your faith, rather than talk about rabbits and other such nonsense.

 

[Don]

While I can understand you response is primarily centered on the criticism of a babe, when you go on to say...





...it leaves a broader impression that judging is wrong, and this in general. The implication is that if one judges, they are like unto the Pharisee.

That is not the case.

You do not say "And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge a new believer's heart and/or salvation?" but, "And finally, who are you--or I, for that matter--to judge another's heart and/or salvation?"

I had hoped that my comments would be taken within the context of this thread. I apologize for confusing you.

It is arguable, lol. Aren't we arguing about it?

I'm attempting to explain my statements. If you'd prefer to argue, then by all means....

So let's consider someone professing Christ, getting baptized, and then standing up and saying "I am so glad I was saved, because before I felt no love of God or for God because I thought He was against me cheating on my wife with my boyfriend."

Are you going to judge such a statement?

Or, for fear of being perceived as a Pharisee, are you going to reserve judgment until you have established a better relationship with this fellow?

I personally will reserve judgment, because the way you've presented it doesn't identify whether the man has stopped cheating on his wife or committing homosexuality because he now knows it's against God; or if he's continuing to do those things because he now thinks God loves him anyway. Without that clarification, judging him would be like Simon judging the woman sinner in Luke 7, wouldn't it?

I agree.

And I made it clear I actually view the testimony of a babe as an expression of faith. I do not judge them as I do the guy standing behind the pulpit. And if it was that guy that has encouraged the testimony which is wrong, then I judge...why I am even a part of that fellowship. lol

We, as Christians, are not excluded from judgment, nor are we excused to judge righteously, and unfortunately...sometimes that is going to offend. But we don't do anyone any favors by overlooking error.

Whole-heartedly agree; but I don't think that was specified or otherwise made distinctive in the opening post.

God bless.

And to you.

 

[evangelist6589]

Why do you write stuff like this? Nowhere does Don indicate that doctrine doesn't matter to him. He's merely pointing out not to be hard on new converts and their understanding of scripture.

Then we can agree.