Here's an interesting take of the versions issue: http://www.sharperiron.org/showthread.php?t=7589
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
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The Well and the Water: An Allegory
- Thread starter swaimj
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Ed Edwards
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Here is where the allegory is:
http://www.sharperiron.org/2008/04/22/the-well-and-the-water-an-allegory/
http://www.sharperiron.org/2008/04/22/the-well-and-the-water-an-allegory/
Salamander
New Member
The only allegory is that anyone has ever held back the Water of the Word to anyone in the KJB.
We find its water pure and of the natural origin, ( naturally God for those who would need to inquire) without the defilement found in "city water"/ processed water.:godisgood:
We find its water pure and of the natural origin, ( naturally God for those who would need to inquire) without the defilement found in "city water"/ processed water.:godisgood:
4His_glory
New Member
I read this the other day over at Sharper Iron and though about posting a link here. I am glad that you did swaimj. It is a good allegory. Thanks.
Salamander
New Member
All it is, is a witty invention of a man who tries, helplessly, to validate an arguement for MV's against the KJB as the final authority.
It reminds me of alchemy.:laugh:
It reminds me of alchemy.:laugh:
Good post!
Much as I love the King James, it is not the original autographs and should not be elevated to that level.
Seems to me there was a time when the conservative (nay, fundamentalist) powers that be wanted to keep the Bible in Latin only. If you really WANTED to know what God said, go and learn Latin.
Nah, I want the Truth to be available to all. I work with too many for whom English is a second language. Too many poor readers.
They deserve the scriptures also.
Much as I love the King James, it is not the original autographs and should not be elevated to that level.
Seems to me there was a time when the conservative (nay, fundamentalist) powers that be wanted to keep the Bible in Latin only. If you really WANTED to know what God said, go and learn Latin.
Nah, I want the Truth to be available to all. I work with too many for whom English is a second language. Too many poor readers.
They deserve the scriptures also.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Please stick to a discussion of the allegory and try to stay off all hobby horses.
Elsewhere, someone tried to make this a pro-KJVO story...so I wrote this little counter-tale:
_________________________________________________________________
A TALE OF GOOD WATER SOURCES
Once upon a time, the peoples of a certain group of island nations obtained their own water supply, no longer having to depend upon imports from Italy as they'd done for a long time. Certain wannabee authorities from Italy tried to dry up this new water supply, but the people eventually conquered them, making them either leave, submit, or die.
The source for home water supply was changed several times, with the old sources still remaining, but falling into disuse as new ones were developed; their main source was dug by some eminent engineers who'd been in exile to Geneva, Switzerland. Then, a king arose who employed a group of the best engineers he could find to make the best water source for that land that could be made with the technology at hand. This, they did, but the common people were reluctant to give up the water source made by the Geneva men. Finally, the govt. banned all other sources of native water but the king's well; the Geneva mens' well soon fell into disuse.
While all this was going on, the people of the land established colonies overseas, and at first took a supply of the Geneva water with them, but as it was used up, they replaced it with the king's water.
Time passed, & a few other sources of water were found; the govt. didn't say anything about them, but the king's water remained the prevalent source throughout the land & its colonies. But as more time passed, it became apparent that the king's water was no longer the best water available. This was emphasized after one of the nation's largest colonied broke free & became its own sovereign nation, wanting its own water supply. So, in 1880, a group of men dug a new well...but its water was brackish, and nothing could be done cost-effectively that would make it into good water.
Meanwhile, the former colony, now grown rich & powerful, sought its own water supply. It found a few, but early on the 1900s, it still largely used the "mother land's" water. However, the winds of change were in the air. But in 1930, an official of a religious cult wrote a book extolling the virtues of the kings water from the mother land & denouncing all other sources. However, this book "lay dormant" for a few years.
By this time, the former colony had developed several water sources that were considered at least equal, if not superior, to the king's water from the mother land. But in 1955, some wannabee author discovered the cult official's book & wrote his own denunciation of all other water supplies but the king's well, while plagiarizing heavily from the cult official's book. Several other wannabee authors soon followed suit, & theor various boox soon established a "king's water only" movement in the former colony.
By the 1970s, several new water sources that were technically-superior to the old king's water, was more mineral-free & tasted better, had been dug. But the first set of pro-king's-water-only authors had inspired a new generation of wannabees who published their own boox against these new water sources, using almost any excuse they could invent to denounce the new sources. But their rhetoric didn't fool too many people. Most people, both in the former colony & in the mother land, knew that while the king's water was still good, they were not limited to just this one source any more, that newer sources were available that were just as cheap and at least as good.
Nowadays, the peoples of the mother land, her neighbors who use the same language, and all her former colonies who also use that language have quite a selection of water sources. Shoot, even some of the first water sources of the mother land are once again being used some! This gives the people a broader exposure to the various elements found in the various sources, increasing their overall health.
While some "king's water-only" folx are still around, mosta the people dismiss them as quax. They aren't gaining any ground. And they all THANK GOD for the various water sources with which He's blessed them.
_________________________________________________________________
A TALE OF GOOD WATER SOURCES
Once upon a time, the peoples of a certain group of island nations obtained their own water supply, no longer having to depend upon imports from Italy as they'd done for a long time. Certain wannabee authorities from Italy tried to dry up this new water supply, but the people eventually conquered them, making them either leave, submit, or die.
The source for home water supply was changed several times, with the old sources still remaining, but falling into disuse as new ones were developed; their main source was dug by some eminent engineers who'd been in exile to Geneva, Switzerland. Then, a king arose who employed a group of the best engineers he could find to make the best water source for that land that could be made with the technology at hand. This, they did, but the common people were reluctant to give up the water source made by the Geneva men. Finally, the govt. banned all other sources of native water but the king's well; the Geneva mens' well soon fell into disuse.
While all this was going on, the people of the land established colonies overseas, and at first took a supply of the Geneva water with them, but as it was used up, they replaced it with the king's water.
Time passed, & a few other sources of water were found; the govt. didn't say anything about them, but the king's water remained the prevalent source throughout the land & its colonies. But as more time passed, it became apparent that the king's water was no longer the best water available. This was emphasized after one of the nation's largest colonied broke free & became its own sovereign nation, wanting its own water supply. So, in 1880, a group of men dug a new well...but its water was brackish, and nothing could be done cost-effectively that would make it into good water.
Meanwhile, the former colony, now grown rich & powerful, sought its own water supply. It found a few, but early on the 1900s, it still largely used the "mother land's" water. However, the winds of change were in the air. But in 1930, an official of a religious cult wrote a book extolling the virtues of the kings water from the mother land & denouncing all other sources. However, this book "lay dormant" for a few years.
By this time, the former colony had developed several water sources that were considered at least equal, if not superior, to the king's water from the mother land. But in 1955, some wannabee author discovered the cult official's book & wrote his own denunciation of all other water supplies but the king's well, while plagiarizing heavily from the cult official's book. Several other wannabee authors soon followed suit, & theor various boox soon established a "king's water only" movement in the former colony.
By the 1970s, several new water sources that were technically-superior to the old king's water, was more mineral-free & tasted better, had been dug. But the first set of pro-king's-water-only authors had inspired a new generation of wannabees who published their own boox against these new water sources, using almost any excuse they could invent to denounce the new sources. But their rhetoric didn't fool too many people. Most people, both in the former colony & in the mother land, knew that while the king's water was still good, they were not limited to just this one source any more, that newer sources were available that were just as cheap and at least as good.
Nowadays, the peoples of the mother land, her neighbors who use the same language, and all her former colonies who also use that language have quite a selection of water sources. Shoot, even some of the first water sources of the mother land are once again being used some! This gives the people a broader exposure to the various elements found in the various sources, increasing their overall health.
While some "king's water-only" folx are still around, mosta the people dismiss them as quax. They aren't gaining any ground. And they all THANK GOD for the various water sources with which He's blessed them.
Salamander
New Member
And when he referred to the "Scriptures" just what do you suppose he meant?HankD said:
Salamander
New Member
Seems Paul advised Timothy on avoiding old wives tales and fables, but some people think they should use them to validate their arguements.:laugh:robycop3 said:
Where is this fabled "motherland" anyways?:laugh:
Salamander
New Member
BTW, study out the "water" as referred to in the Book of John chapter 3, you'll find it is the pure water of regeneration of a man through the word of God which is coupled by the Spirit's connection to adapt man to the heavenly way, and not adapt the word of God to man's understanding.
raying:
raying:Salamander, an allegory does not prove anything. It merely puts an argument for a position in story form so that the positions tenets can be seen in a coherent form. Allegory is a fine literary device. Paul used it. John Bunyan also used it to some acclaim. Bunyan's is a little difficult to understand for the modern reader because it is written in old English from the 1600s. Modern translations are available however, if you find the English difficult.
Salamander
New Member
You're trying to prove a point using a fable, roby.:laugh:robycop3 said:
The translations made from the sources available at the time and so did the KJV translators because they affirmed his statement.
Presumably when you say "he" you are refering to "S. Augustine" whom the Anglo-Catholic KJV translators quoted.
HankD
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Salamander
New Member
When you make a general condmenation, does this also mean that evrything "catholic" is then wrong?HankD said:
And then why is it we who are Anabaptists hold so dogamtically to the KJB as the Final Authority, yet so diametrically opposewd to most "Anglo-Catholic" beliefs? BTW, first I ever heard of anything "Anglo-Catholic"!:laugh:
I think you've invented a new label, or at least repeated something either "new" or fallacious.
What we refer as the word of God, the word of Truth, what thus saith the Lord, etc. is the 66 Books that make up the Canon of Scripture found in the KJB, and nothing else in the English language.:godisgood:
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