The Word, John 1

IAB 16:

Sorry if you mistook my post as stereotyping! That was NOT my intent. I was answering a specific question with my own observation of SOME ELEMENTS among IFB's. Forgive me if I caused confusion or offense.

JDale

 

You may be correct, but they appear to be doing the same thing.

The Word in John 1 made all things.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The word in Hebrews 11:3 "framed" the worlds.
FRA'MED, pp. Fitted and united in due form; made; composed; devised; adjusted.

Could you compare either of these 'words' with the word of God in 1 Peter 1:23?
1 Peter 1
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.

What word is he talking about that liveth and abideth forever?

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

Just checking - By "this view" do you mean the strange idea that the "Word" in John 1.1 is the printed bible, as in the original post, or one of the various views expressed in reply?

And if there isn't an agreed definition of "fundamentalists", can we really answer the question?

 

No offense take JDale.

Actually, I was answering Tater. IFB's cannot all be lumped together any more than any other group of Christians.

 

My apologies to everyone! I was stupid enough not to notice that the write of the original post and the writer asking about "fundamentalists" are the same person! My message was therefore completely meaningless. Sorry!

 

Let's take a look at them. (This ties into a duscussion on the Other Denominations section.)

To begin with, "word" in verse 23 is "Logos".

"Word" in verse 25 is "rhema" in both cases.

Verse 23 is also one of only two verses in the NT in which "born again" is used. (The other one is also in 1 Peter 1, back in verse 3.)

When you see "Word of God" (Logos), it embodies much more than simple words, written or oral. "Logos" embodies the "big picture"; reason, thought, etc. "Rhema", however, would be the words themselves; it can be a single word or a saying or it can even mean the subject matter of the word(s) or even a thing in some cases. But "rhema" brings out the single item instead of the entire concept as "logos" does. (There's also a third word that means "word", and that's "onoma", which means a single word, and if memory serves, specifically "name".)

So, let's look at Hebrews 11:3, then come back to 1 Peter: Hebrews 11:3 Through [by] faith we understand that the worlds [ages] were framed [mended, made perfect or mature] by the word [rhema] of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Now, look at 1 Peter: 1 Peter 1:23: Being born again [regenerated; not born from above as with when you were saved], not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by [through] the word [logos] of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If you diagram this verse out, it's the "logos" that is living and abiding. That doesn't mean that God is not living and abiding, but that's not the subject at hand. In fact, in the LXX, in Daniel 6:26, these words make an interesting study in relation to the God of Daniel.

1 Peter 1:25: But the word [rhema] of the Lord endureth for ever [for "the age", singular]. And this is the word [rhema] which by the gospel [which gospel?] is preached unto you.

Notice that in verse 23, it's the word (logos) of God. In verse 25, it's the word (rhema) of the Lord.

There is more than one gospel. This one is referring to the gospel of the Kingdom.

This passage is referring to being born again, not born from above. It's a Kingomd message. Whenever you see "Word [logos] of God", it's a Kingdom message, not a salvation message.

In John 3:3, unless a man be born from above, he cannot see the Kingdom.

In John 3:5, unless a man do some stuff, he cannot enter the Kingdom.

If you do a study on "born again", you will see that the idea in John 3:3 is specifically "born from above", and in John 3:5 the idea is "born again", just as in 1 Peter. (Interestingly, I recently found out that some manuscripts contain "born again" in John 3:5, but it has been replaced by a Latin footnote in the N-A 27.)

In verse 17, it's talking about judging, and works.

In verse 19, it's talking about the blood. He died that all might be saved, but his blood was shed for many.

In verse 21, we see that through him many are believing in God, that he was raised from among the dead ones, he was given glory, that your faith and hope might be in God. [Faith and hope; what is the hope of a Christian? To rule and reign. Not to simply be saved from the lake of fire. That's assured, not a hope.]

Verse 22: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren [obedient saved people], see that ye love [verb; works] one another with a pure heart fervently:

It's works and obedience.

That's what the "logos" is about. The "rhema" is simply about the words.

Both are important, but different.

 

Amen Hope of Glory -- You are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

 

Sorry, Tater. I must have misunderstood.

I just assumed since you were in a Baptist church and it wasn't SBC that it was IFB.

 

The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

Note the first one is about the Written Word of God,
the Holy Bible (AKA: Holy Scripture).
Note that #2 to #5 (the last four) are about
the Living Word of God, Messiah Jesus.
Notice that a person (even if He is a spiritual person)
is NOT the same as a Book (even if it is the
best book in the world).

To equate the Written Word of God and the Living
Word of God is a step away from the Fundamentals
of Christianity. To equate the Written Word of God
and the Living Word of God is a step toward
a NEW AGE belief.

The next step toward the NEW AGE belief concerning
the Holy Scripture is to use the Divine Bible
(third person of the Holy Trinity) as a divination device
and a fortune telling tool: i.e. using
some Bible Code on the King James Version 1769
Edition ONLY.

The Bible Codes are a direct violation of the ETERNAL
LAW OF GOD:

Deu 18:10-11 (KJV1611 Edition):
There shall not be found among you any one
that maketh his sonne, or his daughter
to passe thorow the fire,
or that vseth diuination,
or an obseruer of times,
or an inchanter,
or a witch,
11 Or a charmer,
or a consulter with familiar spirits,
or a wyzard,
or a Necromancer.
12 For all that do these things,
are an abomination vnto the Lord:

 

Yep, I know some rather fundamentalist Missionary Baptists.

 

Tater what you experienced is the new wave of KJVOism...
We have seen in here on the board over the last few months...

It started in Hyle's preacher's school when they did a program a few years ago lifting up the KJV and compared it to Jesus...

The service used to be on the internet.. I listened to it last year, but I can't find it now...

Sanderson has said here on BB that the KJV is God.
When I called him on it, others here have taken his defense...

It is heresy... plain and simple..

There is a difference between being KJVO and being a KJV heretic.


Here is a link to a post by Dr. Bob where he describes the same service at the Hyles "school"
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36847&page=14

 

I've been around KJVOs for the last 13 yrs.
If you remember, I used to be one.

And when I was one, we never used that verse to prove our stance.
It wasn't until I was on the HAC website one night late, and heard this service where the choir was singing the song the Dr Bob described in the link above, that I heard some sermons like this.

I really wish I could find that link... Schaap preached a few, along with old sermons from Hyles, and there was another guy but I can't remember his name...

Then last fall, our resident hit and run sanderson spewed forth this doctrine of Satan right here on BB, and some backed him up... I knew KJVOism was about ready to take another evil turn toward the pits of Hell...

When Satan can get us to worship a book, he has succeeded in taking worship from the true God.... GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT.

I predict that this type of trash will be spewed forth from more pulpits across the nation. And it is usually from the emotionally charged, spit in your face, jump up and down, Hyles wannabees.

We must stand up and fight for the truth...
It is too bad that so many Christians are falling for this myth.

I thank God, He pulled me out of it before I went too far in.
And I am KJVP!

 

Found the link to the service at Hammond...
At a Pastor's school...

No wonder "pastors' are preaching this now..
It can be traced back to their "theological training"
http://www.baptist-city.com/The_Stone.html

I wonder if the pastor you heard has ties with Hammond?

 

Amen, Brother TinyTim -- Preach it! :thumbs: