The World God so Loved !

[Iconoclast]

dhk



Its proven, read the thread ! You are the one who needs to come up with biblical evidence stating that God Loved all men in the world without exception. I have news for you, the scripture never says that. He Loves His own in the world Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

And no, one does not have to be a believer for God to Love them. He Loved His His Own while they were sinners and enemies by nature ! Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes....correct again...you have made your point once again:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

Correct,

I know it is correct, who else could he be speaking to ? All you have to do is read the the first chapter, it says Rom 1:7-8

7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

However, they were not believers when they were enemies to God by Nature. Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

He is informing them of a relationship they had with God because of Christ's Death, before they became believers. Notice He said "when we were enemies" that is past tense, do you understand the past tense ?

 

[DHK]

dhk
I know it is correct, who else could he be speaking to ? All you have to do is read the the first chapter, it says Rom 1:7-8

7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

They were enemies, as you say, like the rest of the world. Thus Christ died for all the sins of the world. He died for all his enemies. If he didn't, then you wouldn't be saved. You are saved because you put your faith in Him, not because he forced His faith upon you. The Bible doesn't teach that.

However, they were not believers when they were enemies to God by Nature. Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

He is informing them of a relationship they had with God because of Christ's Death, before they became believers. Notice He said "when we were enemies" that is past tense, do you understand the past tense ?

We are enemies of God by nature; children of God by choice. Whosoever will may come.

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

They were enemies, as you say,

You mean as Paul stated. Yes they were enemies. Another scripture Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

However, when they were yet enemies in their mind by wicked works, They were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That only goes for God's Elect, those Christ died for !

 

[Iconoclast]

dhk



You mean as Paul stated. Yes they were enemies. Another scripture Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

However, when they were yet enemies in their mind by wicked works, They were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That only goes for God's Elect, those Christ died for !

yes....the passage is speaking only of those who have peace with God....rom5:1.....not the ungodly who remain outside,

 

[savedbymercy]

yes....the passage is speaking only of those who have peace with God....rom5:1.....not the ungodly who remain outside,

Well yes, but those whom Christ died for do have objective peace with God, in other words, God does not hold anything against them, Christ Blood has satisfied His Law and Justice on their behalf, they just do not know it, while they are still unregenerated !

When They are born again,m and given Faith, then they receive subjective peace by Faith Rom 5:1.

Paul tells us back in Rom 4:25 where their Justification before God was evidenced, when Christ was raised from the Dead !

 

[DHK]

dhk



You mean as Paul stated. Yes they were enemies. Another scripture Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

However, when they were yet enemies in their mind by wicked works, They were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That only goes for God's Elect, those Christ died for !

Your last statement can only be looked upon from God's point of view; not from man's point of view. That is where you and most Calvinists get confused. There is man's view of looking on things and God's view. We don't have God's eyes. We can't see the elect.

Since you don't know "the world" that God died for (if you limit it), then you don't know that you are a part of it. You have no assurance that God elected you. You cannot know if your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life because you were not there when he wrote it.

The only way you can be assured of that, is if you accept that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and that if you trust him then you become one of the elect. For, whosoever may come. Our salvation is based on our choice to receive or reject Him as Saviour. He, in His omniscience knows who will and who won't receive him. We don't. If you limit "the world" of John 3:16 you have no guarantee of salvation, for "the world" may not include you. How on earth would you ever know that you are one of the elect except that Christ died for the "whosoevers of the world--all who have the choice to believe.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your last statement can only be looked upon from God's point of view; not from man's point of view. That is where you and most Calvinists get confused. There is man's view of looking on things and God's view. We don't have God's eyes. We can't see the elect.

Exactly...that is why we preach to all men.....for all we know every person we meet could be elected. We are not confused by this at all.

Since you don't know "the world" that God died for (if you limit it),

We do know that salvation will be worldwide as God has his children scattered ;

prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

then you don't know that you are a part of it. You have no assurance th God elected you. You cannot know if your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life because you were not there when he wrote it.

WE Can and do have assurance because no one can believesavingly unless God draws them...once drawn they believe and keep on believing jn 5:24...and 1jn says we can KNOW.....that we know.

The only way you can be assured of that, is if you accept that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and that if you trust him then you become one of the elect.

Not exactly....no one....becomes one of the elect...they are elected before time.....
No one has to first"accept" that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world in the sense that every single person has their sins paid for.
Jesus salvation is worldwide...if anyones sins anywhere in the world get paid for.....Jesus alone will be the propitiation for THOSE SINS...anywhere in the world.

For, whosoever may come.
They are welcome to come...but they will not.....
No man can come...but the Father which hath sent me draw Him.

Our salvation is based on our choice to receive or reject Him as Saviour.
My salvation was based on His love before time.He elected me.

He, in His omniscience knows who will and who won't receive him.

Yes...because He has already elected them....He knew us before time

We don't.

We do not need to know

If you limit "the world" of John 3:16 you have no guarantee of salvation,

sure we can......God the father has given children to Jesus worldwide...just not every person is given to Him savingly.....although HE has power over all flesh.

for "the world" may not include you. How on earth would you ever know that you are one of the elect except that Christ died for the "whosoevers of the world--all who have the choice to believe.

We can only know ....when we believe.....because only the elect can savingly believe. Many "believe" in vain...because it was a natural .fleshly belief......Saving grace and faith is a God given gift however.

 

[DHK]

yes....the passage is speaking only of those who have peace with God....rom5:1.....not the ungodly who remain outside,

That is not true.
(Rom 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
--It is quite evident that Christ died for the ungodly. "The Bible tells me so."

 

[Iconoclast]

That is not true.
(Rom 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
--It is quite evident that Christ died for the ungodly. "The Bible tells me so."

DHK
Allow me.....
I contend this is speaking to the justified...in context. The justified were once lost and ungodly...even as others..but now they are new creation image bearers.....
lets look at who Paul speaks to;

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Believers being justified have peace...no peace to the ungodly
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Believers again....access by faith...grace...we stand..rejoice in God


4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Believers have this....unbelievers..no hope and without God in the world

5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Believers...The Holy Ghost...given unto us...believers only

6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Believers....when we were in unbelief...yet without strength and ungodly...He died for us......while we were ungodly...
7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Believers again....while we were yet sinners.....were looks like past tense...we{ believers were}....He died for US. believers only, justified only
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Believers again...100%unbelievers are not justified by His blood.They will not be saved from His wrath...only justified believers are
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
believers again

11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

All believers...all the time:thumbs::thumbs:WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TELL YOU NOW?????

 

[DHK]

DHK

All believers...all the time:thumbs::thumbs:WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TELL YOU NOW?????

That ALL the believer at ONE TIME, were ALL UNSAVED, and they were ALL part of the WHOLE WORLD, the WORLD which Christ came to save; the WORLD which he atoned for. Had he not atoned for ALL the sins of the world, you would have no guarantee of salvation. You could not know if you were of that select few that had their names written in the Lamb's book of Life before the foundation of the world, unless he atoned for all the world. For, it is whosoever will may come. Only on that basis do you have an assurance of salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

That ALL the believer at ONE TIME, were ALL UNSAVED, and they were ALL part of the WHOLE WORLD, the WORLD which Christ came to save; the WORLD which he atoned for. Had he not atoned for ALL the sins of the world, you would have no guarantee of salvation. You could not know if you were of that select few that had their names written in the Lamb's book of Life before the foundation of the world, unless he atoned for all the world. For, it is whosoever will may come. Only on that basis do you have an assurance of salvation.

DHK....you cannot possibly deny what I just posted about Romans 5 1:11

I showed you verse by verse how the context is the justified.....I will let that post and my other one stand...let the readers decide.....I really do not understand how you can brush it off as if it does not say exactly what I outlined and then some

 

[DHK]

DHK....you cannot possibly deny what I just posted about Romans 5 1:11

I showed you verse by verse how the context is the justified.....I will let that post and my other one stand...let the readers decide.....I really do not understand how you can brush it off as if it does not say exactly what I outlined and then some

(Rom 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Rom 5:6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

 

[preacher4truth]

........................

 

[preacher4truth]

(Rom 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Rom 5:6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Which was a past event in history, and pointing back to their specific salvation which was also a past event.

 

[billwald]

>That ALL the believer at ONE TIME, were ALL UNSAVED

John The B?

And what about death bed conversions? All must be false, right? God can't regenerate a person who has been having fun for 70 years, can he?

The REAL problem is that you all think sinners, Jews, Mormons, atheists . . . are having more fun and living better than you all are and it frosts you all.

 

[DHK]

Which was a past event in history, and pointing back to their specific salvation which was also a past event.

Yes it was. And Christ was the Lamb, slain before the foundation of the world, slain to make atonement for every individual of the world.

 

[preacher4truth]

>That ALL the believer at ONE TIME, were ALL UNSAVED

John The B?

And what about death bed conversions? All must be false, right? God can't regenerate a person who has been having fun for 70 years, can he?

The REAL problem is that you all think sinners, Jews, Mormons, atheists . . . are having more fun and living better than you all are and it frosts you all.

You're way off track. I had my fun in sin and that is gone, and you seem to be missing Egypt and are lusting for the onions, leeks and garlic.

Me? I drank of the Living water, and I am no longer thirsty for Egypt, nor do I consider "those times" fun as you do.

These are some of the things that distinguish you from me.

 

[Amy.G]

>That ALL the believer at ONE TIME, were ALL UNSAVED

John The B?

And what about death bed conversions? All must be false, right? God can't regenerate a person who has been having fun for 70 years, can he?

The REAL problem is that you all think sinners, Jews, Mormons, atheists . . . are having more fun and living better than you all are and it frosts you all.

Forgot to take your meds again?

 

[preacher4truth]

Contrary to the things DHK has said:

That ALL the believer at ONE TIME, were ALL UNSAVED, and they were ALL part of the WHOLE WORLD, the WORLD which Christ came to save; the WORLD which he atoned for. Had he not atoned for ALL the sins of the world, you would have no guarantee of salvation. You could not know if you were of that select few that had their names written in the Lamb's book of Life before the foundation of the world, unless he atoned for all the world. For, it is whosoever will may come. Only on that basis do you have an assurance of salvation.

We can know we are elect, and we do, as the Scriptures show and indicate as valid.

We who believe in the truth about election, have no doubt as to if we are elect for the simple fact that He called us, and drew us, and that we are subsequently believers.

The truth is simple, we believed therefore we are His chosen. It's easy to grasp. Even the Thessalonians knew they were chosen, 1 Thess. 1:4. They not only knew they were chosen, it's so plain to see in Scripture, yet you cast doubt like no one can know, against Scriptural evidence one can. You should have known this truth DHK. They were plainly told they were chosen, and in context that they knew this fact. :thumbsup:

It's plainly taught in the Scriptures.

So much for the non-cal "rebuttal" that says we cannot "know" if we are elect.

:wavey: