The "World"

[johnp.]

Your morals are God's morals? You jest?

john.

 

[webdog]

I try to make God's morals my morals. Isn't that the point of being in Christ?

I only pray you jest...

 

[johnp.]

I try to make God's morals my morals. Isn't that the point of being in Christ?

Well no not really. The thought that I could unlease genocide is a step too far for me man.

john.

 

[webdog]

Well no not really. The thought that I could unlease genocide is a step too far for me man.

john.

That's you, but there have been some throughout time to do just that.

You really don't try to follow God's moral standards?

 

[johnp.]

You really don't try to follow God's moral standards?

JOB 9:23 When a scourge brings sudden death,
he mocks the despair of the innocent.

JOB 9:24 When a land falls into the hands of the wicked,
he blindfolds its judges. If it is not he, then who is it?

No I don't. If that's what you mean by morals that is.

john.

 

[Allan]

PS 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him.

That's the second time I've shown you 'world' in the OT which does not mean sinners but planet.

john.

John you seem to read posts about the same as you read the scriptures - lop sided. Here are potions of my first and second posting (not includeing others) that have maintained this SAME view.

What I contend is that though 'World' does mean all of something whether man or a group in or of the whole (regarding man), it can not be contended the 'World' EVER is about the saved. Actually the 'World' in every sense it is used (outside of this planet) it is used discribing a Lost Sinfilled 'World' and NEVER those of the redeemed.

Irregardless of whether it fits your personal theological bent DOES IT EVER mean anything other than a Lost sinfull World in context EVERY time it occurs in EITHER OT or NT. (outside of the obvious plantet 'world' meaning)

 

[Rippon]

" All "

In Acts 2:17 it says in the last days God would pour out His Spirit upon all people .

Does the word "all" in this verse mean each and every person , or "some" ? It obvoiusly means a limited mumber -- His elect ones .

 

[Allan]

But that has nothing to do with your OP, Rippon.

What does "world' mean in context based on consistant content. OT - establishes the meaning of the word and the NT continues its usage without change.

 

[Rippon]

Allan ,I had said in my OP that " The same goes for "everyone " and "all" . All , everyone and world have something in common in this discussion .

 

[Allan]

Allan ,I had said in my OP that " the same goes for the usage of all and everyone " . All , everyone and world have something in common in this discussion .

I missed that, but no matter.

Appleby was still incorrect in his application of WHOM the 'world' was.

The term 'all' can have multiple different meanings in context because 'all' can be an "adjective, noun, pronoun, and adverb" where as the term 'world' is a noun.

Now we know a noun can BE different things and so we look to the authors consistant use of the word to determine the meaning a depth. Since God is the one who wrote the scriptures and seperated it by two covenants or Testiments (Old and New), we can look to see from the beginning (OT) how He consistantly used this word. And if God uses it to describe his people, AND the planet, AND the wicked - the it fallows form to do so in the NT. But if God NEVER uses it in the OT to discribe His people but DOES use it to describe the Planet and the wicked (in variations of both forms but always of one or the other) then by consistancy and context "world" will mean the same things in the second Half as it did in the first HALF of the Bible - Gods Book.

 

[GordonSlocum]

In the context that you used it, it would mean "the lost sinful World"...However what benifit is the BLOOD and death of Jesus Christ to those that GOD will/does NOT save by HIS GRACE?

Read: Matt. 7 about those who die lost and stand before the Great White Throne (Rev. 20:11-15).

Also, if GOD is not willing that none should perish and if GOD sent Jesus to die for EVERY sinner...

Why is it that JESUS christ will not save everyone?

Why is it that the blood did not cleanse thier sin as well as the elect?

Why is it that Jesus has "my sheep"...IF you are not His sheep, then how would you expect to be saved by God's GRACE? If not by grace, then the only other answer that people will give: "by my good works"...Read Matt 7, Eph 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 and the whole books of Gal. and Romans....No one can earn thier own salvation?

Why is it that not everyone will hear the gosple? if GOD truely wanted to save everyone.

God is a soveriegn GOD. Is GOD soveriegn enough to save ALL PEOPLE if HE wanted to do so?

God will only save the people that HE so choses by GRACE, all other will be forever lost. What choice do they have when GOD condemns them to hell?

"Free will" doctrine seems to state: "I am free to save myself by my good works that I should boast there-in before GOD and those sinners that could not save themselves".....

What a pity. If that's the case everyone would be lost, because NONE of us can save ourselves. Salvation is having a personal relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST and that comes only by the GRACE of GOD....

:godisgood:

Acts 17: 2. And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3. explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and {saying,} "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ." 4. And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God- fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

18. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The Bible View - Correct
John Calvin - Wrong
Jacob Arminius - Wrong

 

[Rippon]

And why were some "persuaded " ? Did they have the wherewithall , the insight , ability , the strength of character , the intelligence to come to a knowledge of the truth themselves ? OR , does Acts 13:48 come into play here ?

 

[MB]

And why were some "persuaded " ? Did they have the wherewithall , the insight , ability , the strength of character , the intelligence to come to a knowledge of the truth themselves ? OR , does Acts 13:48 come into play here ?

Does one verse establish regeneration before faith when there are so many that supports faith before regeneration? I think that's streching Act 13:48 beyond it's limits.
MB

 

[johnp.]

This is the way I see it:

One is regenerated into faith. One must be born again before one can see. Regeneration gives the ability to believe. Unless one has a new heart the word will not take root. One can't grow anything on stone.

This operation is instant. One second dead in sins and transgression and the next second holy joes and blameless in God's sight. Made alive must come before belief. How could we understand the, "Come to Me." If we were dead in our sins? How does one hunger and thirst after righteousness as a fallen man when sinful man's sinful mind is hostile to God?

Acts 16:14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.

That is no stretch. The Lord opened her heart, regeneration, and she believed, faith.

What verses support faith before regeneration MB?

john.

 

[psalms109:31]

Born again

We must be born again to see heaven, but we do not have to be born again to trust and believe in Jesus.

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Acts 19
Paul in Ephesus
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[Or after] you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into[Or in] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[Or other languages] and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

 

[johnp.]

We must be born again to see heaven, but we do not have to be born again to trust and believe in Jesus.

You are in error Psalms. 1 Cor 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

One is regenerated into faith. One must be born again before one can see. Regeneration gives the ability to believe. Unless one has a new heart the word will not take root. One can't grow anything on stone.
This operation is instant. One second dead in sins and transgression and the next second holy joes and blameless in God's sight. Made alive must come before belief. How could we understand the, "Come to Me." If we were dead in our sins? How does one hunger and thirst after righteousness as a fallen man when sinful man's sinful mind is hostile to God?

Acts 16:14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.

The Lord opened her heart, regeneration, and she believed, faith.

What verses support faith before regeneration Psalms?

We must be born again to see heaven...

Not Heaven, the Kingdom of God. God is Sovereign.

john.

 

[johnp.]

You know why some of them were persuaded don't you GordonSlocum? It was God who worked in them to will and to act according to his good purpose. Php 2:13. Salvation is by grace, gratis. I pray one day you can say with me, "But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect."

18. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Opened it up to debate did He GordonSlocum? Think you could reason on level peggings with Him?

John Calvin - Wrong
Jacob Arminius - Wrong
GordonSlocum - Wrong
johnp - right.

johnp.

 

[AresMan]

what's IOW mean?

john.

So, in other words, you have no clue what IOW stands for?

 

[psalms109:31]

Truth

You are in error Psalms. 1 Cor 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

One is regenerated into faith. One must be born again before one can see. Regeneration gives the ability to believe. Unless one has a new heart the word will not take root. One can't grow anything on stone.
This operation is instant. One second dead in sins and transgression and the next second holy joes and blameless in God's sight. Made alive must come before belief. How could we understand the, "Come to Me." If we were dead in our sins? How does one hunger and thirst after righteousness as a fallen man when sinful man's sinful mind is hostile to God?

Acts 16:14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.

The Lord opened her heart, regeneration, and she believed, faith.

What verses support faith before regeneration Psalms?



Not Heaven, the Kingdom of God. God is Sovereign.

john.

You do not have to understand to believe, but believe as a child.


They believed before they received the Holy Spirit that in itself tells you regenerations happens after we believe,

It is Jesus words that is Spirit and they are life without accepting them we have no life. His words is the beginning of the regeneration.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

Faith is being a baby in the mothers womb. We must be willing to go back as a child in the womb of our mother and Jesus being our mother.