The worst Christian ever

[matt wade]

That's your two cents, and you're entitled to it, but to accuse others of having a problem with scripture based on one's view of genesis, or on one's view of arminianism, or one's view of the tribulation, or millenialism, or any other non-essential topic is categorically out of line. These are nonessentials in scripture, and therefore subject to liberty (that baptist distintive we frequently preach but seldom apply). Victorious said "Black and white is good on the essentials. Grace and pliability on the non-essentials." That is very true, and very important.

This isn't one of your "liberty" items that you love to talk about Johnv. God created man as stated in Genesis. There were no intermediate steps between God creating and man being in existence. There was not an evolutionary process where man went through a series of transformations.

If you don't believe that God created man directly, without any evolutionary help, you aren't a Christian...simple as that.

 

[Johnv]

No, again, I am sorry but this is NOT a non-essential. Either Gods word is true or Gods word is not true.

The "either Gods word is true or Gods word is not true" argument is likewise used to debate calvinism/arminianism, a pre- or post- trib rapture, millenialism, original sin, etc etc etc. Whether you like it or not, it's a nonessential, as are all of these. It's obviously important to you personally, and that's perfectly valid. But that doesn't make it a scriptural essential.

If you don't believe that God created man directly, without any evolutionary help, you aren't a Christian...simple as that.

So now we're making judgements about a person's salvation.

 

[matt wade]

So now we're making judgements about a person's salvation.

Yes...it's same as me saying if you don't believe Jesus is God that you aren't a Christian. If you deny a basic tenant of Christianity, you aren't a Christian. If you don't believe that God created man, you aren't a Christian. It's really that simple. That you can't see that is very telling.

 

[Johnv]

If you deny a basic tenant of Christianity, you aren't a Christian.

How literal or nonliteral Genesis is to be taken is not a basic tenant of Christianity. Don't get me wrong. It's a topic validly worthy of discussion, debate, and the like. But to make make a judgement on a person's salvation based on said discussion or debate is completely unmerited, and wholely inappropriate.

If you don't believe that God created man, you aren't a Christian.

You're right. God as creator is a core doctrine. Since Christians who have no problem with evolutiuon believe God created man, their salvation isn't an issue.

That you can't see that is very telling.

That you would make a judgement on a person's salvation is moreso telling.

 

[matt wade]

How literal or nonliteral Genesis is to be taken is not a basic tenant of Christianity. Don't get me wrong. It's a topic validly worthy of discussion, debate, and the like. But to make make a judgement on a person's salvation based on said discussion or debate is completely unmerited, and wholely inappropriate.

You're right. God as creator is a core doctrine. Since Christians who have no problem with evolutiuon believe God created man, their salvation isn't an issue.

That you would make a judgement on a person's salvation is moreso telling.

No, someone that believes in the evolution of man does not believe the God created man. They believe that God created something else and then there was a "process" that God helped along that created man.

If you don't believe that God directly and instantly created man, you are not a Christian. Sorry if you don't agree with the Johnv, but sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[Johnv]

... someone that believes in the evolution of man does not believe the God created man.

That's strictly your opinion based on your scriptural application, but it is not objective fact, nor is it the truth.

Sorry if you don't agree with that, matt, but sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Jon-Marc, you are not less than anyone else.

The people who say that you are way off the mark.

Besides no one is worse than me.

 

[matt wade]

That's strictly your opinion based on your scriptural application, but it is not objective fact, nor is it the truth.

Sorry if you don't agree with that, matt, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Here's fact for you Johnv:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Either you believe the Bible or you don't. My "opinion" is formed from taking God's Word literally. Your opinion is formed by adding to, changing, and manipulating God's Word to suit your world view. Show me something from the Bible that supports the evolution of man and then you can talk about truth. Until then, I'll believe the truth that is presented clearly in His Word.

 

[Johnv]

Here's fact for you Johnv:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

I have no problem with this whatsoever. I'm not disagreeing with your application of the passage. I'm disagreeing with your salvific judgement of those who do not concur with your application.

Either you believe the Bible or you don't. My "opinion" is formed from taking God's Word literally.

Ding ding! It's strictly your opinion to take that specific verse literally. It is right and reasonable to engage in discussion and debate as to whether these verses should be taken literally. It is not right or reasonable, however, to judge a person's salvation based on whether they share your opinion on it.

 

[matt wade]

Ding ding! It's strictly your opinion to take that specific verse literally. It is right and reasonable to engage in discussion and debate as to whether these verses should be taken literally. It is not right or reasonable, however, to judge a person's salvation based on whether they share your opinion on it.

No, it is not right and reasonable to debate whether the Bible is literal or not. It is literal. If it is not literal then God is a liar, and I know that's not so. If a person does not believe the Bible to be the literal Word of God then, yes I call into question their salvation.

 

[Johnv]

No, it is not right and reasonable to debate whether the Bible is literal or not.

Regardless of the topic, it's never wrong to engage in discussion and debate.

If a person does not believe the Bible to be the literal Word of God then, yes I call into question their salvation.

Really? Song of Solomon says the author's lover is the most beautiful of all women. However, my own wife is the most beautiful of all women. I don't believe thise verse was meant to be taken literally, and I'm willing to bet most husbands here would agree with me. Are you ready tell every husband on this bb that they are not saved?

 

[matt wade]

Regardless of the topic, it's never wrong to engage in discussion and debate.

Really? Song of Solomon says the author's lover is the most beautiful of all women. However, my own wife is the most beautiful of all women. I don't believe thise verse was meant to be taken literally, and I'm willing to bet most husbands here would agree with me. Are you ready tell every husband on this bb that they are not saved?

Personally, I won't lie to my wife and ignore God's Word. If God says that a woman is the most beautiful woman in the world, who are you to doubt God? I think that there are many other husbands on this bb that take God's Word literally. Frankly, I think you are in the minority that don't.

 

[Johnv]

Personally, I won't lie to my wife and ignore God's Word.

Okay, so now every time a husband tells his wife she is the most beautiful woman of all, that husband is not only unsaved, he's ignoring God's Word?

Good luck with that.

 

[matt wade]

Okay, so now every time a husband tells his wife she is the most beautiful woman of all, that husband is not only unsaved, he's ignoring God's Word?

Good luck with that.

No, he's just a liar.

 

[Johnv]

No, he's just a liar.

So, when a husband tells his wife she's the most beautiful woman of all, he's a liar? Okay.

 

[matt wade]

So, when a husband tells his wife she's the most beautiful woman of all, he's a liar? Okay.

I haven't studied the verse in Song of Solomon that you refer to, but if God has already proclaimed that one woman is the most beautiful woman ever, then yes...men are liars if they tell their spouse that.

 

[Robert Snow]

This isn't one of your "liberty" items that you love to talk about Johnv. God created man as stated in Genesis. There were no intermediate steps between God creating and man being in existence. There was not an evolutionary process where man went through a series of transformations.

If you don't believe that God created man directly, without any evolutionary help, you aren't a Christian...simple as that.

This is one of the most ignorant, self-righteous posts I have read in a long time. According to you know one can be wrong about the things you hold as essential without being lost.

BTW, there have been many Christians in the past who held to theistic evolution. I believe they were wrong, but to say that they were not Christians is being a Pharisee!

 

[Jon-Marc]

Jesus loved and still loves those He came to seek and to save, but He also rebuked sin and false teachings. He said "Go, and sin no more" when He healed someone. He did not condone sin or false teachings. Nor did He say, "I respect your beliefs." He did show appreciation for those with great faith--like the Centurion who came to Him seeking healing for his servant.

Did Jesus say to His disciples, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel, but compromise the truth when you need to in order to win the lost"?

 

[matt wade]

This is one of the most ignorant, self-righteous posts I have read in a long time. According to you know one can be wrong about the things you hold as essential without being lost.

BTW, there have been many Christians in the past who held to theistic evolution. I believe they were wrong, but to say that they were not Christians is being a Pharisee!

So, your stint as a conservative is over huh? Feel free to think of the Bible as a set as stories, partially true, or whatever else those with liberal theology believe. Personally, I believe that the Bible is 100% accurate and if God said that He created man, then He did it. No where is there any evidence in the Bible that God created something besides man which then evolved into man. If a person doesn't have the faith to believe that God created man, then they aren't a Christian. You can't be a Christian without faith in God.

 

[Robert Snow]

So, your stint as a conservative is over huh?

Are you able to read at all? I said that I disagreed with theistic evolution.

You don't want to debate. All you do is post inflammatory things and argue with other every chance you get. It is the classic "little man syndrome."