The written word of God teaches faith precedes regeneration.

[37818]

Ephesians 1:12-14, That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[Dave G]

after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

" And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

 

[canadyjd]

Ephesians 1:12-14, That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This verse teaches we receive God Holy Spirit indwelling after believing the truth of the gospel.

It does not speak of regeneration by God Holy Spirit; that occurs prior to salvation, which allows the chosen to understand the gospel and respond by accepting Christ by faith.

It doesn’t teach what you think.

Peace to you

 

[Blank]

The written word of God teaches faith precedes regeneration.​

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:13,17 KJV

 

[37818]

It doesn’t teach what you think.

What did you think I thought? Re: Ephesians 1:12-14 is explicit in what it teaches.

 

[canadyjd]

What did you think I thought? Re: Ephesians 1:12-14 is explicit in what it teaches.

I thought you were clear. You believe this passage from Ephesians teaches regeneration comes after saving faith.

It doesn’t.

It teaches indwelling God Holy Spirit occurs after saving faith.

God Holy Spirit regenerates first, then comes understanding and faith in Christ, then comes indwelling God Holy Spirit.

Although we speak of a “logical order” in this event, for many it seems to occur instantaneously. For others, regeneration… accompanied by God Holy Spirit’s conviction of the truth of sin and need for a savior can last for an extended period before repentance, faith, indwelling occurs.

As I’ve stated before, if God grants salvation based on something we do, that is works salvation.

If, on the other hand, God grants salvation (a right relationship with God) when we respond to the work of God Holy Spirit in regeneration, conviction, leading, drawing… with faith in Christ, that is grace (the unmerited favor of God)

Peace to you

 

[37818]

I thought you were clear. You believe this passage from Ephesians teaches regeneration comes after saving faith.

It doesn’t.

No, it does.

t teaches indwelling God Holy Spirit occurs after saving faith.

Yes, it does.

 

[JesusFan]

This verse teaches we receive God Holy Spirit indwelling after believing the truth of the gospel.

It does not speak of regeneration by God Holy Spirit; that occurs prior to salvation, which allows the chosen to understand the gospel and respond by accepting Christ by faith.

It doesn’t teach what you think.

Peace to you

We have examples in Acts of the Holy Spirit using the gospel to "open up hearts and minds of certain hearers" as in regeneration as unto salvation before faith

 

[atpollard]

Here is a passage that talks about REGENERATION:

Titus 3:3-7 [NASB]
For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Savior and [His] love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life.

 

[canadyjd]

Here is a passage that talks about REGENERATION:

Titus 3:3-7 [NASB]
For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Savior and [His] love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to [the] hope of eternal life.

Yes. “He saved us…. By the washing of regeneration….”

Clearly, according to this passage, regeneration precedes salvation and is, in fact, the means by which we are saved.

The Ephesians passage does not speak of “regeneration” at all, but of being “sealed” by God Holy Spirit after salvation.

Thanks for sharing

Peace to you

 

[Blank]

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Question: " How do we go from the natural man to receiving the things of the Spirit of God (regeneration) without the Spirit of God?

Also..

Romans 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Nolan Stengel]

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Question: " How do we go from the natural man to receiving the things of the Spirit of God (regeneration) without the Spirit of God?

Also..

Romans 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The Calvinist has a hard time making that
distinction.

The natural man, without being drawn to Christ, can’t come to Christ on their own. But if the natural man is being drawn to Christ then they are able to make that decision.

John 10:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[JesusFan]

The Calvinist has a hard time making that
distinction.

The natural man, without being drawn to Christ, can’t come to Christ on their own. But if the natural man is being drawn to Christ then they are able to make that decision.

John 10:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Sinners still cannot desire to even come to Jesus until and unless drawn by the Father and regenerated by Holy Spirit to be enablied to then hear and believe with that gift of saving Faith

 

[Blank]

The Calvinist has a hard time making that
distinction.

The natural man, without being drawn to Christ, can’t come to Christ on their own. But if the natural man is being drawn to Christ then they are able to make that decision.

John 10:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Yet, there is this...
John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Does the Father draw all? Then why are not all regenerated?

 

[Dave G]

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans

" ...and hearing by the word of God."

 

[Dave G]

in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

I'll try again:
" And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

Same as in the first post I made, but with a bit more detail...

Sealed:

adjective
1) closed or secured with or as if with a seal

“my lips are sealed”
“the package is still sealed”
“the premises are sealed”


adjective
2) established irrevocably

“his fate is sealed”

adjective
3) determined irrevocably


“his fate is sealed”

" to confirm or make secure by or as if by a seal"
" to solemnize (something, such as a marriage) for eternity"
" to set or affix an authenticating seal to"
" to mark with a stamp or seal usually as an evidence of standard exactness, legal size, weight, or capacity, or merchantable quality"
" to fasten with or as if with a seal to prevent tampering".
" to determine irrevocably or indisputably"


How is it that some think that "sealed" means "born again" from at least one passage that speaks of the Holy Spirit sealing someone?
I do not know.

To me, "sealed" means "sealed" as in the above definitions.

 

[Dave G]

@37818
Here, take a look at this:

" And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted [thither].
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought [us], saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide [there]. And she constrained us." ( Acts 16:13-15 ).


This ( among others ) tells me that regeneration precedes belief.
I'm sorry that we disagree, sir.

 

[37818]

How is it that people think that "sealed" means "born again" from the passages that speak of the Holy Spirit sealing someone?

Faith precedes being born again.

Now sanctification does precede faith.
John 17:17, Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Romans 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Dave G]

The Calvinist has a hard time making that
distinction.

The natural man, without being drawn to Christ, can’t come to Christ on their own. But if the natural man is being drawn to Christ then they are able to make that decision.

John 10:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

" And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die." ( John 12:32-33 )

Not being a "Calvinist" ( someone who has learned how to understand the Bible from Reformed teachers and Reformed theology ), but many here would accuse me of being one, what I see when I examine John 12:32 carefully, is the fact that the word "men" is not present in the Greek...but was added by early English translators for continuity.

Here is a link to the Greek and English:

John 12:32 Interlinear: and I, if I may be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.'

In hundreds of places, translations like the English Authorized make a distinction between words that were added to the text for continuity ( but not part of the actual Greek / Hebrew translation process ) in italics, and ones that are actually part of the properly-translated text ( non-italicized ). With this in mind, John 12:32 without the italicized words, would read like this:

" And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die."

All who?

All of Christ's sheep, given to Him by the Father, or all men?
The Lord Jesus, in John 17:2, specifically tells us that He is only going to give eternal life to as many as His Father has given to Him.
Given what the Lord has told us about who His sheep are and why they are His sheep, I understand it as reading "all of His sheep".
So, when I read John 12:32 with what's already been told us in John 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 ( for example ) in mind, I see something very different.

Please take another look at it, if you will.

 

[Dave G]

Faith precedes being born again.

" in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

The passage you quoted above says "sealed" after belief...not "born again" or that, in the case of Lydia, "the Lord opened her heart" so that she would listen to the things Paul spoke of.
I'm not seeing it from what Scriptures you've shown, so I'll have to ask, "Based on what?"

Perhaps bringing in more of God's word would help me to understand how and why you see it that way.