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The written word of God teaches faith precedes regeneration.

37818

Well-Known Member
If I may interject a question after reading the thread - From where does this "faith" (that man has to be capable of hearing, repenting of sin, and believing the Gospel) originate?
One cannot know anything without believing a thing.
 

Blank

Active Member
One cannot know anything without believing a thing.
I prefer to know something/someone before believing...
John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
I prefer to know something/someone before believing...
John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
You want to hear a thing before you choose to believe a thing.
How do you choose to believe a thing you hear?
There is already something you had believed. In your hearing.
 

Blank

Active Member
You want to hear a thing before you choose to believe a thing.
How do you choose to believe a thing you hear?
There is already something you had believed. In your hearing.
Romans 10:14-15 (KJV) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Romans 10:14-15 (KJV) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Why do some hear with understand, while others stay still tone deaf to the message? Its called sovereignty of the Lord, and the working of the Holy Spirit
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
You want to hear a thing before you choose to believe a thing.
How do you choose to believe a thing you hear?
There is already something you had believed. In your hearing.
Why do some hear with understand, while others stay still tone deaf to the message? Its called sovereignty of the Lord, and the working of the Holy Spirit
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Why do some hear with understand, while others stay still tone deaf to the message? Its called sovereignty of the Lord, and the working of the Holy Spirit
Psalms 19:4, . . . Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. . . .

Romans 10:18, But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Why do some hear with understand, while others stay still tone deaf to the message?
" At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]."
( Matthew 11:25-27 ).

" But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 )
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Yet, there is this...
John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Does the Father draw all? Then why are not all regenerated?
Jesus Himself qualified that by stating all that the Father gave unto Him shall be raised up in last days, not all persons period
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Faith precedes being born again.

Now sanctification does precede faith.
John 17:17, Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Romans 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Where does saving faith come from? From the Holy Spirit ot internally inherit in all men?
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
" in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

The passage you quoted above says "sealed" after belief...not "born again" or that, in the case of Lydia, "the Lord opened her heart" so that she would listen to the things Paul spoke of.
I'm not seeing it from what Scriptures you've shown, so I'll have to ask, "Based on what?"

Perhaps bringing in more of God's word would help me to understand how and why you see it that way.
That's where he messed up. By saying "the written Word of God teaches...", rather than, "a misreading assumption misunderstood in the misinterpretation of a word in this verse teaches..."

I mean, "in Ephesians 1:3, is the Thanksgiving to God, as the God and Father of Christ, for Spiritual Blessing in Christ in general;

"and then Paul proceeds to the particular teachings of the Doctrines of Salvation, and begins with Election, which is represented as an Act of God the Father, and that Election is of particular persons, and they were Elected in Christ, from the Foundation of the World, the End of Election is Salvation and the Perfect Holiness and Love His children then possess, in Ephesians 1:4,

"and which Election to Salvation is further illustrated under the name of Predestination;

"the Blessing which Predestination is an appointment to the Adoption of children;

"the Moving Cause of the Adoption of His children, is the Good Pleasure of the Divine Will;

"the Instrumental Cause, or Means, is Christ Jesus;

"the End reason with God is that these children are Elected to Salvation for Himself, in Ephesians 1:5,

"and which, in the next verse, His children's Salvation is explained as being for the Glory of His Grace;

"to which Grace in Salvation, his children owe their Acceptance with Him in Christ.

"and which is another Spiritual Blessing, or a Branch of the Doctrines of Election and Predestination, in Ephesians 1:6.

"To which is added another Grace from God in Christ, and that is Redemption;

"the Author of which is Christ;

the Price, or Procuring and Meritorious Cause of it is Jesus' Blood;

"a Branch of which is Forgiveness of sins;

"and the whole Plan of Election into Salvation is according to the Plenteous and Free Grace of God, in Ephesians 1:7,

"the Entire Eternal Plan of Salvation and Scheme of which is the Product of Abundant Wisdom and Prudence, in Ephesians 1:8,

"and the Entire Eternal Plan of Salvation is none other than the Mystery of the Will of God Revealed in the Gospel, according to God's Sovereign Will and Purpose, in Ephesians 1:9,

"which has lain hidden within God Himself until the Fullness of Times, or the Gospel dispensation, in which Christ being Sent, has Gathered all together in Himself, in Ephesians 1:10,

"through whom the saints enjoy the Inheritance they are Adopted to in Predestination, which is the effect of an Unfrustrable Purpose, and a Wise Counsel and Will of God, in Ephesians 1:11.

"The End of which is, that those Predestinated, Redeemed, and Adopted ones, should be to the Praise and Glory of God, in Ephesians 1:12,

and who are described as such, who first trusted in Christ upon hearing the Gospel; and after they had believed in Him, were Sealed by the Holy Spirit, said to be the Spirit of Promise, in Ephesians 1:13,

"and this being "Sealed by the Holy Spirit" is not the Birth from Above by the Holy Spirit in their Salvation, but it is to be understood of the Confirming, Certifying, and Assuring the saints, after they have Received the Holy Spirit in the New Birth, as the Holy Spirit Testifies and Witnesses to these saints their interest in the Favour of God, and in the Blessings of Grace, of every kind, and their Eternal Right and Title to the Heavenly Glory;

"Which the Holy Spirit Whom the Father and Christ had Promised, and Who was Sent by Them;

"and because the Holy Spirit usually Seals, or Certifies believers of the Truth of the above Blessings to know the Eternal Truths in the Doctrines of Election and God's Eternal Plan of Salvation by opening and applying a Word of Promise to them: and which He does also, as the "Holy" Spirit;

"Because this Sealing Work of the "Holy" Spirit leaves a greater Impression of Holiness upon the soul, and engages God's children more to Acts of Holiness;

"wherefore the Doctrine of Assurance is no licentious doctrine;

"no persons are so Holy as those who are Truly Possessed of that Grace of continually being Assured of the Holy Spirit's Presence in their soul,

"and as for such who pretend to be saved, and live in sin, it is a certain thing that they in reality know nothing of it."

"The Holy Spirit Witnesses to the saints after they are Born Again, by this Certifying, or Perpetual Sealing and is Who is also spoken of as the Earnest and Pledge of the saints' Inheritance, and Who Will continue to be so to them until all the people of God are Redeemed from the grave in the Resurrection Morn, which will also issue in the Praise and Glory of God, in Ephesians 1:14,

"and now on account of all these Blessings of Predestination, Adoption, Redemption, Calling, and the Sealing of the Spirit; as also, because of their faith in Christ, and love to the saints, these believers were possessed of, the apostle gave thanks, and continued to give thanks to God in his prayers to Him, in Ephesians 1:15."

All adapted from Gill's fine teachings;
Also see Gill on 2 Corinthians 1:22.
at 2 Corinthians 1 Gill's Exposition
 
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