The X in Christmas

[Johnv]

The "mas" of Christmas is generally accepted to be the celebration of worship

In many Hispanic Baptist communities, many congregations at midnight between the 24th and 25th conduct a "Missa de Gallo". I was told that "Servicio de Gallo" just sounds a bit funky!!!

 

[jonmagee]

Brian, I assume you are referring to the fact that Mass has a particular meaning within catholism.however it also means "feast" or "celebration". In that context there is a more universal meaning as we celebrate the birth of Christ

yours, Jon.

 

[BrianT]

Where has "mass" been used to mean "feast" or "celebration" outside of the RCC? Is the the name "Christmas" a variation of "Christ-mass", the RCC mass forcusing on the birth of Christ? Have Baptist always celebrated "Christmas" all the way back to the days of Christ (and using this name), or did they borrow this somewhere along the way from the Catholics (where the name comes from 'Christ-mass')?

It's OK to say "yes, the name comes from the RCC", really it is. You won't be struck by lightning or anything.

 

[latterrain77]

The "X" in the word "X-mas" quite obviously obliterates the word CHRIST in the word Christmas (regardless of the largely unknown and meaningless history concerning the "X" as reported on this thread). As such, any true believer would never use the "X" to stamp out Christ's name.

Of course, BaptistBeliever & Joshua you are both free to "x-out" Christ's name as much as you wish and for whatever reason you fancy. I won't try to stop you or encourage you to do otherwise.

As for me, I will stick to the word CHRIST in CHRISTmas and will boldly remind all other Christians to do the same.

The Bible never once refers to Christ as "X." How then can "Christians use it out of knowledge and heritage" when the Bible never says it? They can't!

Does "man's knowledge and heritage" trump the BIBLICAL truth? I say no. Such "knowledge and heritage" comes straight from the heart of man (Mark 7: 8, Col. 2: 8).

Furthermore, common sense OBVIOUSLY shows that the word CHRISTmas is FAR more GOD glorifying than the word Xmas. Unbelievers rejoice when the name CHRIST is covered with a huge "X." Why egg them on?

1 Peter 4: 14, "If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified."

This verse - and all others in the Bible - do not say; in the name of "X." It says in the name of Christ.

latterrain77

 

[rsr]

Sigh.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by latterrain77:
The "X" in the word "X-mas" quite obviously obliterates the word CHRIST in the word Christmas (regardless of the largely unknown and meaningless history concerning the "X" as reported on this thread).

So 2000 years of Christian history and tradition are meaningless because you have a different opinion?

As such, any true believer would never use the "X" to stamp out Christ's name.

You're missing the fact that it is not X-ing out Christ's name. You you say the pronounce the name of Jesus as "Yeshua"? If you don't, you're replacing the name of Jesus with something else -- something a "true believer" would not do according to your rationale.

Of course, BaptistBeliever & Joshua you are both free to "x-out" Christ's name as much as you wish and for whatever reason you fancy. I won't try to stop you or encourage you to do otherwise.

And by implication, we are not "true believers". That's quite a bit of slander and is unworthy of a Christian. More importantly, it is also a sin against God to falsely judge your brothers in Christ.

As for me, I will stick to the word CHRIST in CHRISTmas and will boldly remind all other Christians to do the same.

Only ignorant people assume that those who spell "Christmas" as "Xmas" have changed anything.

The Bible never once refers to Christ as "X." How then can "Christians use it out of knowledge and heritage" when the Bible never says it?

Actually, it refers to Christ as "Xristos" (except using Greek letters). If you want to be "biblical," you better stop using English translations/transliterations. The Christian heritage of using English translations is much shorter than the heritage of using the "chi" symbol for Christ. As soon as you reject speaking of the gospel in English terms and relying on English translations, I will reconsider my use of the "chi".

They can't!

They can and we do -- without sin.

Does "man's knowledge and heritage" trump the BIBLICAL truth?

No biblical truth is being compromised here.

I say no.

Good for you! Now deal with the real issue.

Such "knowledge and heritage" comes straight from the heart of man (Mark 7: 8, Col. 2: 8).

Nope. It comes from that allegedly "largely unknown and meaningless history" of the Christian faith. (By the way, it is not "unknown" to Christians who have done any serious study of Christian history nor is it "meaningless" except to those who would willingly make themselves ignorant.)

Furthermore, common sense OBVIOUSLY shows that the word CHRISTmas is FAR more GOD glorifying than the word Xmas.

OBVIOUSLY common sense is not that common. For what it's worth, you *do* understand that "Christ" is a *title* (the Greek version of "Messiah"), not Jesus' last name, right?

Unbelievers rejoice when the name CHRIST is covered with a huge "X."

I've never seen the word "Christ" covered with a huge "X". Furthermore, many unbelievers are ignorant of Christian history, so we shouldn't base our faith and practice on those who outside of the faith.

Why egg them on?

Actually it can provide a great opportunity to share your faith to an unbeliever when you discuss the term "Xmas". It's a perfect object lesson that doesn't sound "church-y".

1 Peter 4: 14, "If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified."

Nice verse... I agree with it, but I don't think it applies here.

This verse - and all others in the Bible - do not say; in the name of "X." It says in the name of Christ.

Actually, you're talking about the *English* Bible. We're drawing on a heritage longer and broader than the English Bible translations.

But let me reemphasize something here... You have alleged that true believers in Christ are unbelievers because they are drawing from their Christian heritage a different way to spell/symbolize Christ. That is a sin against us and, more importantly, a sin against God.

You need to repent.

[ December 19, 2002, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]

 

[donnA]

I know what the X is, that is short for Christ, but I still can't do it.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Here's something for those who say that they like to use the "X" because of what it originally meant, ignoring what it largely implies today.

At one time the swastika was a harmless symbol, before the National Socialists used it.

Knowing that it was originally a respectable symbol, do you display it today, say, in jewelry, wall hangings, decorations, etc.?

I didn't think so. I don't either, just like I don't use the "X" in Christmas.

 

[Christian41974]

I have heard Xmas is the world trying to take Christ out of Christmas ,and I have heard that Xmas is to mean something good as many of you say.
I have not been to seminary or seriously studied church history as many of you have. I know a little bit about both. I would not though question the King James Bible even if it is a later English translation. It is the Word of God.But back to the main subject. Not everyone has taken notes in seminary or studied back to A.D.30. So most are ignorant of the use of X in Greek ,and to most it would appear to be trying to X out Christ that is why I write it Christmas. Maybe one of you should write a book about the many wonderful uses of "X" in languages besides English. I do not think it slander to call some one wrong though if it is true ,and Baptist Believer you used as much judgment as the other person in your post. Baptistbeliever, slander is spoken words and libel is written.Not stated to imply I am not ignorant, I have a sister who is an English teacher and I have beside me an 1828 Websters dictionary.

 

[rsr]

This is the Internet, an unknown universe. Is it libel? Is it slander? No one knows yet. In a newspaper, it's libel. On TV, it's slander. In any case, it's defamation of character. Malice and all that. (The knowledge that a statement is false or, more importantly, utter disregard of the truth.)

And that it is.

I do not use "Xmas." I do not use "Xn." But I know what they mean and have no offense from folks I know are using it correctly. If they use it incorrectly, I understand they have no understanding of Christmas. And then I can say something.

Noe.

 

[Christian41974]

Baptistbeliever, I just wanted to say I trust my *English* Bible. I also like the *English* language. I have not had it but I would like to try *English* tea. My forefathers were *English*. I speak and write *English*. I do not like the *English* accent as much as the ^Scottish^ though.
I am a second year ~Spanish~ student ,and I like that language ,but of course not as much as *English*.

 

[rsr]

Yes. But I like french fries and belgian waffles. And Oolong tea, Colombian coffee, Mexican enchiladas, Texican tacos, Italian spaghetti, turkish taffy, brussels sprouts, Danish ham and sandwiches. And Bob's barbecue.

What's the point?

http://www.gospelfacts.org/symbols.php

[ December 20, 2002, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: rsr ]

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
Here's something for those who say that they like to use the "X" because of what it originally meant, ignoring what it largely implies today.

At one time the swastika was a harmless symbol, before the National Socialists used it.

Knowing that it was originally a respectable symbol, do you display it today, say, in jewelry, wall hangings, decorations, etc.?

I didn't think so. I don't either, just like I don't use the "X" in Christmas.

You better get rid of your crosses then since a lot of people who know nothing of Jesus use a cross as a fashion symbol...

Why should we abandon our faith symbols because of the ignorance of others? Instead of retreating, we should educate. Every time someone thinks that "Xmas" belittles or removes Christ, we should use that opportunity to explain the Christian heritage of the symbol and turn the conversation to Christ.

I do stuff like that all the time. Just two weeks ago I had a brief conversation with two teenagers about Christ waiting in line for a movie. They seemed very interested in what I had to say because I simply shared the gospel in normal conversational way.

Instead of giving in to the world, we should be taking our faith to the world. Or is that too hard?

[ December 20, 2002, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by CDGriffin:
I have heard Xmas is the world trying to take Christ out of Christmas ,and I have heard that Xmas is to mean something good as many of you say.
I have not been to seminary or seriously studied church history as many of you have. I know a little bit about both. I would not though question the King James Bible even if it is a later English translation. It is the Word of God.

Just wanted to note here that I am not rejecting the King James Bible (although I am not KJVO). The point I was trying to make is that he was upset I was using a Greek symbol to represent Christ (an ancient tradition) while he was using an English translation (where English words represent/replace/interpret the Greek New Testament) instead of copies of the original Greek manuscripts ( a much later tradition since English translations were non-existent during the first 1000 years A.D.) He is on much shakier ground than I am using his reasoning.

But back to the main subject. Not everyone has taken notes in seminary or studied back to A.D.30.

Sure, I understand that. Not everyone has had the opportunity nor the calling. But if some have had the opportunity to study, shouldn't we at least give a listening ear and so if what they say is true?

So most are ignorant of the use of X in Greek ,and to most it would appear to be trying to X out Christ that is why I write it Christmas./QB]

Yep. And that's the point of the thread. Almost everyone understands that too.

[QB]

Maybe one of you should write a book about the many wonderful uses of "X" in languages besides English.

I doubt it would fill a book or even a full chapter... but there are plenty of web sites on the internet where this information is available for anyone who knows how to use a search engine.

I do not think it slander to call some one wrong though if it is true

Since I am a true believer and he indicated that true believers would never use Chi ("X) for Christ, then his statement is patently untrue.

and Baptist Believer you used as much judgment as the other person in your post.

I regard falsehood as being a very serious issue -- especially when someone claims that another believer is not a "true believer". You better believe I am going to judge a comment that falsely condemns me!

Baptistbeliever, slander is spoken words and libel is written.Not stated to imply I am not ignorant, I have a sister who is an English teacher and I have beside me an 1828 Websters dictionary.

As someone who is in the publishing industry, I am aware of the distinction. But since the Internet is an interactive and much more immediate form of communication than the printed page, I consider our posts simply typed conversations.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:

You better get rid of your crosses then since a lot of people who know nothing of Jesus use a cross as a fashion symbol...

Good point. I don't think we need to get rid of them but I am aware of what you point out and so do not plaster it around frivolously.

Why should we abandon our faith symbols because of the ignorance of others? Instead of retreating, we should educate. Every time someone thinks that "Xmas" belittles or removes Christ, we should use that opportunity to explain the Christian heritage of the symbol and turn the conversation to Christ...

Great idea, thanks.

Instead of giving in to the world, we should be taking our faith to the world. Or is that too hard?

Amen to your point, but I think it does not solve anything. Those opposing your argument would say that TODAY (2002) using the "X" IS giving in to the world.

So anyway, do you display the swastika?

[ December 20, 2002, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: Pennsylvania Jim ]

 

[LadyEagle]

Amen to your point, but I think it does not solve anything. Those opposing your argument would say that TODAY (2002) using the "X" IS giving in to the world.

Agreed.

Perhaps those who say it isn't giving in to the world would like to go on the infidels and atheists forums and explain the original meaning to them, since they certainly don't use the terms Xian and Xmas in the historical sense from what I've seen....

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:
Those opposing your argument would say that TODAY (2002) using the "X" IS giving in to the world.

So anyway, do you display the swastika?

The swastika hasn't been used as a Christian symbol for at least 1700 years and was so tarnished by Nazism that it gives the wrong impression.

The "chi" ("X") has consistently been used for the last 1900-2000 years or so and has only recently been misunderstood by some Americans.

There is an enormous difference between the symbols.

 

[Rev. Joshua]

As a side note, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of the early manuscripts of the King James Bible actually used X in places to represent Christ. With printing/paper costs still very high, such shortcuts and abbreviations were not unusual. Certainly the Anglicans who produced the KJV - whose churches were and are adorned throughout with Chi-Ro's, etc. - would have recognized the symbol immediately.

Joshua

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by SheEagle9/11:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Amen to your point, but I think it does not solve anything. Those opp

 

[Jim1999]

X the letter of unknown quantity; spurt, a drip under pressure.....makes an xpert..an unknown drip under pressure.......Hmmmmm Just another use of the letter X.

I really think that people use X because of space, brevity in writing, and maybe some want to remove any mention of the Christ.

I never use the X, but I am not conscious of having a philosophical reason for not using it.

Cheers,

Jim