Theological Labels, Denominations, Confessions of Faith...are all good

[Iconoclast]

Jerome,
"

'Tis strange to see at this day, how, notwithstanding all the threatnings of God, men are wedded to their own opinions, beyond what the law of grace and love will admit. Here's a Presbyter, heres an Independent, an Anabaptist, so joyned each man to his own opinion, that they cannot have that communion one with another, as by the testament of the Lord Jesus, they are commanded and injoyned.

So Jerome....what do you think he means when he says;
beyond what the law of grace and love will admit.....what guidelines are pointed to here?

 

[blessedwife318]

Here is a thought I had about labels. Even Jesus Christ used labels to talk about a group of people, and I'm not just talking about the Scribes and Pharisees.

6 Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate... So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans

Rev 2:6, 15

As another poster said, labels are just shorthand that save a lot of time.

 

[Jerome]

Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate... So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans
Rev 2:6, 15

Thank you for that. It's important to distinguish between Bible appellations properly used and the sort of stuff promoted in the OP.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thank you for that. It's important to distinguish between Bible appellations properly used and the sort of stuff promoted in the OP.

for you Jerome....

http://www.academia.edu/2052019/Use_of_Confessions_of_Faith_in_Baptist_History

 

[righteousdude2]

dude2,

Hello Dude,
We have not interacted in awhile...hope all is well.

(This is a great post. And I wanted to give my opinion of the subject. In short, doctrines, religion and denominations are way too serious about themselves.)

(It has always been my opinion that theology is merely teachings of man, and most theology ends up as doctrinal talking points. )
Theology is more the study of God....as He has revealed Himself to man. Should we then be surprised if man who is the object of Redemption...obeys God in studying as much as they can about God?

(One must have a relationship with Jesus, and the scripture lays out that process.)
Yes
You perhaps speak for many when you relay these thoughts and I think I understand what you are expressing, but as the crow flies I can only offer what I think as I react to this as if we were interacting face to face.

(As for the church. Some have more merit than others, but when we get into discussing religion, denominations and doctrine affiliated with said denominations, arguments arise, and divisive debates and arguments are not fruits of the spirit.)
I think both kinds of fruit are possible.

(I have to say that in truth, the original church that was given birth at Pentecost was sort of a 'lone ranger' thing. They had to develop their their doctrinal stances, and once they did that, we find the issues came out of who would follow Peter and who would follow Paul. Plus we had the agnostics, and they too developed doctrine from their understanding and personal interpretation of scripture.)

The foundations of the church have happened as God . intended it to.

(So for me, I continue to take a stand that supports pan-theology. I honestly believe that while some groups may be more correct than others, the separation of wheat from tares will be done by God. Meaning everything will "pan" out in the end. Try not to lose sleep over which baptist doctrine is right, or should I say, more right than the other, ICON, so long as souls are being saved in accordance with what Jesus said is the way, why does it matter how and when communion should be served. Or how warm the baptism water must be. Or which hymnal should be used. Or even which version of the Bible we should use?)

Here I can agree that what is a priority to God should be the priority to us. When it comes down to a sinner hearing gospel truth....what we do in the study is behind the scenes as it were backing up what we communicate to the sinner.
That sinner is lost in a self life of sin and rebellion and needs to embrace saving truth.

(God will do the chastising at judgement and all of us will have some comeupance as well as questions to answer. But in truth, we will not enter the narrow gate based upon theology or doctrine, but whether we have been born again, washed in the blood and most importantly if our name is in the Lambs book of life.)

We can rejoice indeed if we are found in Him.

dude2,

Hello Dude,
We have not interacted in awhile...hope all is well.

(This is a great post. And I wanted to give my opinion of the subject. In short, doctrines, religion and denominations are way too serious about themselves.)

(It has always been my opinion that theology is merely teachings of man, and most theology ends up as doctrinal talking points. )
Theology is more the study of God....as He has revealed Himself to man. Should we then be surprised if man who is the object of Redemption...obeys God in studying as much as they can about God?

(One must have a relationship with Jesus, and the scripture lays out that process.)
Yes
You perhaps speak for many when you relay these thoughts and I think I understand what you are expressing, but as the crow flies I can only offer what I think as I react to this as if we were interacting face to face.

(As for the church. Some have more merit than others, but when we get into discussing religion, denominations and doctrine affiliated with said denominations, arguments arise, and divisive debates and arguments are not fruits of the spirit.)
I think both kinds of fruit are possible.

(I have to say that in truth, the original church that was given birth at Pentecost was sort of a 'lone ranger' thing. They had to develop their their doctrinal stances, and once they did that, we find the issues came out of who would follow Peter and who would follow Paul. Plus we had the agnostics, and they too developed doctrine from their understanding and personal interpretation of scripture.)

The foundations of the church have happened as God . intended it to.

(So for me, I continue to take a stand that supports pan-theology. I honestly believe that while some groups may be more correct than others, the separation of wheat from tares will be done by God. Meaning everything will "pan" out in the end. Try not to lose sleep over which baptist doctrine is right, or should I say, more right than the other, ICON, so long as souls are being saved in accordance with what Jesus said is the way, why does it matter how and when communion should be served. Or how warm the baptism water must be. Or which hymnal should be used. Or even which version of the Bible we should use?)

Here I can agree that what is a priority to God should be the priority to us. When it comes down to a sinner hearing gospel truth....what we do in the study is behind the scenes as it were backing up what we communicate to the sinner.
That sinner is lost in a self life of sin and rebellion and needs to embrace saving truth.

(God will do the chastising at judgement and all of us will have some comeupance as well as questions to answer. But in truth, we will not enter the narrow gate based upon theology or doctrine, but whether we have been born again, washed in the blood and most importantly if our name is in the Lambs book of life.)

We can rejoice indeed if we are found in Him.

Thanks for the response, it was thoughtful, as always. I am fine and I pray that the same is true for you! I know I was praying for a family member of yours and I wondered how that has worked out? Take care, and we will talk again soon!

 

[HankD]

If used lawfully. There has been much complaining about these three things in the past few months.

There is nothing wrong with any of these teaching and identification tools.

There is nothing worse than all these lone ranger types who all claim to have unique interpretations as if only they have ever looked in a bible. The same people who complain the loudest often offer novelties that have been shot down in times past.
The same people do not like when they have to actually answer questions and offer scripture. Maybe they cannot.
All of these tools can be used to correct many errors before they pick up momentum.

Have you noticed the same thing?

Agreed. It saves a lot of time when trying to research (for whatever reason) a "Christian" group. Even at that you may have to dig a little.

e.g. The Church of God which is the old World Tomorrow Garner T Armstrong Church. This group appears to be on a modern proselyting campaign.


Going to their website they present a view of Christianity which they oppose and claim is apostate because of their beliefs. Turns out that after a bit of digging the apostates are us the “traditional” believers who believe the “man-made” doctrines of the Trinity (they use a small “t”) and Sunday instead of Sabbath day worship.


But just a preliminary cursory review of the website will not uncover that accusation. The language is crafted in such a way that “traditional” Christians will feel a sense of identity with them



One has to go down a few levels into their subterranean teachings to find out you are an apostate and that they ALONE are the “true church”.


This group also seems to be split into some sort of messianic church offshoots who all hold this same doctrine and is becoming prolific here in the Northwest. We lost one church attender to this movement.


Their plan seems to be to “bait and switch” from letting you know how wise you are for having discovered them (or God allowing you to discover them) to (in an attempt to “set the hook”) - you are doomed because you believe in a false deity (the Trinity) and you should immediately repent or you will be a cast out into the Lake of Fire.


So as the day grows darker – aka - the sunset of the times of the Gentiles – these critters are creeping out from under the rocks and it is necessary to be careful with our social associations lest we be hoodwinked by them or foolishly contribute to them.




HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

Agreed. It saves a lot of time when trying to research (for whatever reason) a "Christian" group. Even at that you may have to dig a little.

e.g. The Church of God which is the old World Tomorrow Garner T Armstrong Church. This group appears to be on a modern proselyting campaign.


Going to their website they present a view of Christianity which they oppose and claim is apostate because of their beliefs. Turns out that after a bit of digging the apostates are us the “traditional” believers who believe the “man-made” doctrines of the Trinity (they use a small “t”) and Sunday instead of Sabbath day worship.


But just a preliminary cursory review of the website will not uncover that accusation. The language is crafted in such a way that “traditional” Christians will feel a sense of identity with them



One has to go down a few levels into their subterranean teachings to find out you are an apostate and that they ALONE are the “true church”.


This group also seems to be split into some sort of messianic church offshoots who all hold this same doctrine and is becoming prolific here in the Northwest. We lost one church attender to this movement.


Their plan seems to be to “bait and switch” from letting you know how wise you are for having discovered them (or God allowing you to discover them) to (in an attempt to “set the hook”) - you are doomed because you believe in a false deity (the Trinity) and you should immediately repent or you will be a cast out into the Lake of Fire.


So as the day grows darker – aka - the sunset of the times of the Gentiles – these critters are creeping out from under the rocks and it is necessary to be careful with our social associations lest we be hoodwinked by them or foolishly contribute to them.




HankD

Yes sadly this group started out as a cult with Herbert and Garner ted Armstrong
then when they were out of the way it look like and it changed
....articles written saying that this group had changed and become saved ..
Maybe those reports are a little premature

but now as you pointed out it looks like they were unsaved people there to begin with and they were religious but still remain usaved if they coming out with all of these defective ideas

 

[HankD]

Yes sadly this group started out as a cult with Herbert and Garner ted Armstrong
then when they were out of the way it look like and it changed
....articles written saying that this group had changed and become saved ..
Maybe those reports are a little premature

but now as you pointed out it looks like they were unsaved people there to begin with and they were religious but still remain usaved if they coming out with all of these defective ideas

They are brilliant word smiths and quite good at the craft.
The evil becomes obvious when a victim goes for the bait and then gets more and more entangled in their deceitful web of cunning distortions of the facts.

This is why I like your O/P. It's very important, now more than ever with this proliferation of error groups.

An eye opener is the number of ROKU streaming services available to anyone who has internet services. A never ending supply of every kind of heresy under the sun and then some claiming to be prophets, apostles, etc... hidden under an innocent facade.

2 Corinthians 11
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

HankD