Theological Liberalism

[evangelist6589]

Was listening to Hank today and a caller called and asked about a certain author. Hank clearly said that author was what we would call a theological liberal as the author questioned the inspiration of scripture, and other essentials in his books and teachings. I am not aware of theological liberals other than what I read in some Catholic commentaries. I always thought that Osteen was a liberal, but I dont think so judging by that page.

http://www.joelosteen.com/About/Pages/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

I think Osteen is just ignorant with his Bible as are many in the third wave movement. But according to one page the social gospel is a part of theological liberalism. Is the social gospel the same as the seeker friendly movement? Also I am not aware of anyone that holds to the Post-Mill view, are you? This seems to be a very rare millennial view.

 

[glfredrick]

Classical theological liberalism is all about humanism in its various guises. One might even suggest that the more radical Arminian doctrines as held by some fit into that camp.

Friedrich Schleiermacher is often credited with being the father of the modern liberal movement.

Ironically, his motivation was to rescue religion from the clutches of Kantian philosophy, but he moved everything to an existential plane and failed to retain the faith once delivered to the saints via the revealed Scriptures.

It was contra Schleiermacher that Fundamentalists and Evangelicals arose.

Walter Rauschenbusch is often credited with the advent of the modern social gospel movement, and his movement was more "social" than "gospel" in that he stressed "living a Christlike life" versus a doctrinal expression of Christianity based on the Scriptures. In so doing, he finally eliminated the doctrine of sin all together. He followed the teachings of Schleiermacher as well as Marx, and worked to meld the two philosophies into one coherent religious system.

 

[preachinjesus]

I would challenge that Pastor Osteen is a "theological liberal." From what I read of him and have seen he's just unaware of theological nuance. Of the few times that he has spoken with any amount of theological clarity he has stated his position in line with conservative evangelicalism. I believe he refers to the Bible as "inspired, inerrant" so that meets a major point for most fundamentalists.

I don't know otherwise, mostly because he doesn't speak with clarity.

 

[glfredrick]

Olsteen just needs to get saved. He is not a preacher, he is a public speaker with an uplifting message. I doubt that he knows much more about the Bible than the average Baptist deacon (and that is being VERY charitable to the deacons!).

 

[OldRegular]

Joel Osteen is part and parcel with the Word of Faith movement, the biggest and most dangerous heresy confronting the Church today.

 

[mandym]

“Listen; don’t dangle people over the fires of hell. Lisa and I always kid about you know we’re going to dangle them over the fires of hell. Listen, that doesn’t draw people to God. They know what kind of life they live. They know how bad they’ve lived. What you’ve got to do is talk about the goodness of God. Listen, it’s the goodness of God that brings people to repentance. It’s the goodness of God. One thing I always appreciated about my dad is that he instilled into us a good vision of who God was. We learned about a good God.” [Sermon: What the Resurrection Means to Us As Believers]~Joel Osteen

Pretty liberal....

 

[12strings]

Was listening to Hank today and a caller called and asked about a certain author. Hank clearly said that author was what we would call a theological liberal as the author questioned the inspiration of scripture, and other essentials in his books and teachings. I am not aware of theological liberals other than what I read in some Catholic commentaries. I always thought that Osteen was a liberal, but I dont think so judging by that page.

http://www.joelosteen.com/About/Pages/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

I think Osteen is just ignorant with his Bible as are many in the third wave movement. But according to one page the social gospel is a part of theological liberalism. Is the social gospel the same as the seeker friendly movement? Also I am not aware of anyone that holds to the Post-Mill view, are you? This seems to be a very rare millennial view.

1. Joel Osteen says lots of the same things that theological liberals say...but then in some interviews, he will also say contradictory things that conservatives would say. So based on his distortion of the gospel and issues of sin, He would probalby be more of an accidental liberal rather than a staunch, well-studied liberal.

2. Roman catholics would actually be considered more conservative than some protestant liberals; except for their view of tradition that lessons the sole authority of scripture.

3. Post-millenialism is probobly the least common of the big 3 (Amillennial, post, & Pre). However, being a Post-Mil does not mean one is a theological liberal. That said, It does fit well with the social gospel that people like Tony Campolo & Jim Wallis promote, being that the the primary point of the gospel is helping the poor and oppressed. Post-Mil views the world, by the efforts of Christians as getting better and better until we "usher in" the kingdom of God.
-This view can be used to promote a social Gospel, or like in South korea, it can be used to motivate a huge sending of Gospel Missionaries, focused by the beleif that christ will not return until the Gospel goes to every corner of the world.

 

[JesusFan]

Joel Osteen is part and parcel with the Word of Faith movement, the biggest and most dangerous heresy confronting the Church today.

part also of modern prosp[erity/health and wealth monement, where faith is a force that makes God a genie, and he also flip flops between firmly stating jesus/Cross only way to God, others times backsoff that

Think that he is the modern day disciple of Robert Schuller, good ole "positive confession/faith" everythig OK, problem is not that we are sinners, but that we have bad view on ourselves and our situation!

 

[glfredrick]

The problem with identifying a theological liberal here on the board is that so many are, but do not think that they are.

As I said above, the more humanistic one makes one's doctrine, the more liberal that same one is -- and that describes over half of the posters we see on a daily basis. While they "think" they are holding to a scriptural position, in fact they are manipulating the text in ever so many ways to get it to support a position that stipulates a synergistic gospel -- one of the very ways that liberal theology is identified.

 

[JesusFan]

The problem with identifying a theological liberal here on the board is that so many are, but do not think that they are.

As I said above, the more humanistic one makes one's doctrine, the more liberal that same one is -- and that describes over half of the posters we see on a daily basis. While they "think" they are holding to a scriptural position, in fact they are manipulating the text in ever so many ways to get it to support a position that stipulates a synergistic gospel -- one of the very ways that liberal theology is identified.

Like those who would deny that we have sinned in Adam, that we spiritually died as a result of that act of disobedience, and those who think man has 'free will" to faith repond to jesus and be saved?

 

[convicted1]

Joel Osteen is part and parcel with the Word of Faith movement, the biggest and most dangerous heresy confronting the Church today.

And does this with a smile.....

 

[convicted1]

Like those who would deny that we have sinned in Adam, that we spiritually died as a result of that act of disobedience, and those who think man has 'free will" to faith repond to jesus and be saved?

See someone is weilding their broad brush again.....

 

[JesusFan]

See someone is weilding their broad brush again.....

feel free to paint in the brush strokes!

 

[convicted1]

feel free to paint in the brush strokes!

Sorry, not gonna run the rabbit trails and derail this thread. Start another one(which you have a keen sense of doing), and I'll bite.

 

[Jerome]

But according to one page the social gospel is a part of theological liberalism. Is the social gospel the same as the seeker friendly movement?

One of the founders of the Social Gospel movement, Dr. Samuel Zane Batten, explains it in a sermon preached from the pulpit of Hamilton Square Baptist Church, San Francisco, in 1913:

At the Hamilton Square Baptist Church yesterday morning Doctor Batten delivered a vigorous sermon on "The Social Task of Christianity." In part he spoke as follows:

"We are just now rediscovering the kingdom of God. The real Christ of the gospel is coming to the front. The kingdom of God is not any more considered an ethereal vision of the hazy future, but is a society of brotherly love here and now. Christians are awakening to the fact that we are not here to prepare to leave the world as much as We are here to save the world. Indeed, the man who seeks only to save himself is in danger of losing his own soul. What show has a man to stand in the new Jerusalem beyond who makes no effort to make the new San Francisco here?"

"Preaches Social Gospel: Rev. Dr. S. Z. Batten in City", San Francisco Call, Feb. 24, 1913, p. 4

 

[evangelist6589]

Well the message that Joel preaches seems to be very similar to what Dave Ramsey and Dan Miller also preach. Both men have spoken up for Joel Osteen and both men no question promote self help and prosperity in their teachings sometimes.