So God's Word died?
Did the French join the Law and the Prophets in Heaven when they were Raptured?
C'mon Bob.
Why would you view the 1260 to be years and the 3 1\2 as days? Same word.
On second thought, never mind, lol.
God bless.
-
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Thief On The Cross, Thou Shalt Be With Me [Jesus] In Paradise...
- Thread starter One Baptism
- Start date
So God's Word died?
Did the French join the Law and the Prophets in Heaven when they were Raptured?
C'mon Bob.
Why would you view the 1260 to be years and the 3 1\2 as days? Same word.
On second thought, never mind, lol.
God bless.
The question would be...what is Paradise?
While Paradise is seen to represent Heaven when Paul (presumably) is caught up, once to refer to the Eternal State, what is the Lord speaking of here? In that day paradise was also euphemistic for Sheol/Hades.
Where did the Lord promise the thief he would be with Christ?
God bless.
One Baptism
Active Member
Revelation is filled with Symbols, and allusion to OT/NT events. Is the "Jezebel" [Revelation 2:20] in Revelation a single woman/person like unto the OT wife of King Ahab, or the same person? No, one is type and the other anti-type. The anti-type is always greater in scope. The type is usually physical/natural/local and the anti-type spiritual/global:
Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. - 1 Corinthians 15:46
My "two witness":
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. - Acts 10:43
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; - Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; - Romans 3:21
Furthermore, a "witness" in Scripture is not always a person or people, but can be many things:
And he said, For [these] seven ewe lambs shalt thou take of my hand, that they may be a witness unto me, that I have digged this well. - Genesis 21:30
Now therefore come thou, let us make a covenant, I and thou; and let it be for a witness between me and thee. - Genesis 31:44
And Laban said, This heap [is] a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed; - Genesis 31:48
This heap [be] witness, and [this] pillar [be] witness, that I will not pass over this heap to thee, and that thou shalt not pass over this heap and this pillar unto me, for harm. - Genesis 31:52
If it be torn in pieces, [then] let him bring it [for] witness, [and] he shall not make good that which was torn. - Exodus 22:13
And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness. - Numbers 17:7
And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds. - Numbers 17:8
Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. - Deuteronomy 31:19
And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. - Deuteronomy 31:21
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. - Deuteronomy 31:26
But [that] it [may be] a witness between us, and you, and our generations after us, that we might do the service of the LORD before him with our burnt offerings, and with our sacrifices, and with our peace offerings; that your children may not say to our children in time to come, Ye have no part in the LORD. - Joshua 22:27
Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should [so] say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we may say [again], Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it [is] a witness between us and you. - Joshua 22:28
And the children of Reuben and the children of Gad called the altar [Ed]: for it [shall be] a witness between us that the LORD [is] God. - Joshua 22:34
And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God. - Joshua 24:27
And the king called for Jehoiada the chief, and said unto him, Why hast thou not required of the Levites to bring in out of Judah and out of Jerusalem the collection, [according to the commandment] of Moses the servant of the LORD, and of the congregation of Israel, for the tabernacle of witness? - 2 Chronicles 24:6
And thou hast filled me with wrinkles, [which] is a witness [against me]: and my leanness rising up in me beareth witness to my face. - Job 16:8
And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them. - Isaiah 19:20
What thing shall I take to witness for thee? what thing shall I liken to thee, O daughter of Jerusalem? what shall I equal to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion? for thy breach [is] great like the sea: who can heal thee? - Lamentations 2:13
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. - Matthew 24:14
Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. - Acts 7:44
Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. - Acts 14:17
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. - James 5:3
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. - 1 John 5:8
Now therefore come thou, let us make a covenant, I and thou; and let it be for a witness between me and thee. - Genesis 31:44
And Laban said, This heap [is] a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed; - Genesis 31:48
This heap [be] witness, and [this] pillar [be] witness, that I will not pass over this heap to thee, and that thou shalt not pass over this heap and this pillar unto me, for harm. - Genesis 31:52
If it be torn in pieces, [then] let him bring it [for] witness, [and] he shall not make good that which was torn. - Exodus 22:13
And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness. - Numbers 17:7
And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds. - Numbers 17:8
Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. - Deuteronomy 31:19
And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. - Deuteronomy 31:21
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. - Deuteronomy 31:26
But [that] it [may be] a witness between us, and you, and our generations after us, that we might do the service of the LORD before him with our burnt offerings, and with our sacrifices, and with our peace offerings; that your children may not say to our children in time to come, Ye have no part in the LORD. - Joshua 22:27
Therefore said we, that it shall be, when they should [so] say to us or to our generations in time to come, that we may say [again], Behold the pattern of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifices; but it [is] a witness between us and you. - Joshua 22:28
And the children of Reuben and the children of Gad called the altar [Ed]: for it [shall be] a witness between us that the LORD [is] God. - Joshua 22:34
And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God. - Joshua 24:27
And the king called for Jehoiada the chief, and said unto him, Why hast thou not required of the Levites to bring in out of Judah and out of Jerusalem the collection, [according to the commandment] of Moses the servant of the LORD, and of the congregation of Israel, for the tabernacle of witness? - 2 Chronicles 24:6
And thou hast filled me with wrinkles, [which] is a witness [against me]: and my leanness rising up in me beareth witness to my face. - Job 16:8
And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them. - Isaiah 19:20
What thing shall I take to witness for thee? what thing shall I liken to thee, O daughter of Jerusalem? what shall I equal to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion? for thy breach [is] great like the sea: who can heal thee? - Lamentations 2:13
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. - Matthew 24:14
Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. - Acts 7:44
Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. - Acts 14:17
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. - James 5:3
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. - 1 John 5:8
To understand Revelation, one needs the Holy Spirit of God, prayer, and previous instruction from God, even line upon line, for the Bible identifies the symbols itself. It is also helpful to have a basic understanding of the structure of Revelation, and of Daniel. If you would like, I can begin a new thread on these things. I am more than willing to share all I have been given from Heaven with you...
Do you really see all of these proof texts as relevant? 1 John 5:8, for example...relevant to the Two Witnesses of Revelation?
So which of these witnesses are the antitype, and expound on how they die, are resurrected, and then raptured.
God bless.
The literal view of the text would have to see the two witnesses as being real men living in end times, correct?
One Baptism
Active Member
No brother, for the context reveals, not merely in typology, but also in its prophecy, that the "two witnesses" are the Law and the Prophets, as demonstrated here - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2215650&postcount=23
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; - Romans 3:21
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. - Revelation 11:6
Revelation 11:6 [in the very context of the judgments of the trumpets beginning in Revelation 8:2, and more particularly of 5th [1st woe], 6th [2nd woe, beginning in Revelation 9:3, with interims], and 7th [third woe, coming of Christ Jesus] Trumpets], refers back to the OT, "power to shut heaven" in the days of Moses [a promise for breaking the covenant] and of Elijah [fulfilled in his day for 3 1/2 years]:
Moses:
And [then] the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and [lest] ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you. - Deuteronomy 11:17
Elijah:
"When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, ..." - 1 Kings 8:35
"When the heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, ..."; - 2 Chronicles 6:26
If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; - 2 Chronicles 7:13
But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; - Luke 4:25
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. - James 5:17
"When the heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, ..."; - 2 Chronicles 6:26
If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; - 2 Chronicles 7:13
See also 1 Kings 17:1,14,15, 18:1,41,44,45
But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; - Luke 4:25
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. - James 5:17
Revelation 11:6, also refers to the days of Moses in the days of Egypt, during the time just before the Exodus, when it says, "have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.":
And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour [it] upon the dry [land]: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry [land]. - Exodus 4:9
And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and [that] there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in [vessels of] wood, and in [vessels of] stone. - Exodus 7:19
And the fish that [was] in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. - Exodus 7:21
For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that [there is] none like me in all the earth. - Exodus 9:14
And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt, upon their streams, upon their rivers, and upon their ponds, and upon all their pools of water, that they may become blood; and [that] there may be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in [vessels of] wood, and in [vessels of] stone. - Exodus 7:19
And the fish that [was] in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. - Exodus 7:21
For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that [there is] none like me in all the earth. - Exodus 9:14
Moses and Elijah, in Type, representing the Law and the Prophets.
Revelation 11, deals with a time period of 1,260 day/years, 538 AD - 1798 AD, as Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6, etc reveal. it is the same time frame found throughout - Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5 and also referenced in Luke 21:24 "times of the Gentiles", in type and anti-type.
The 3 1/2 days [Revelation 11:9,11] is 3 1/2 years by the same [1793 AD - 1797 AD, just before 1798 AD, ending the 1,260 and 1,290 of Daniel], Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6, etc. it is not the same time period as the 1260 days, for it is obvious that 1260 days do not equal 3 1/2 days. The latter is a portion of the other greater, which itself is a portion of a greater still [2300 - Daniel 8:14,26].
The "Temple of God" is God's own people, which were trampled underfoot, for 1,260 years in the dark ages, persecuted in the wilderness.
The Beast in Revelation 11, is a Nation/Kingdom/State power, as identified in all of Scripture, see Daniel 7, 8, etc.
Notice Revelation 11, speaks of "the great city" which is "spiritually called" "Sodom and Egypt". This was Atheistically led France during the reign of the French Revolution and Reign of Terror. It alone fulfills Egypt "spiritually", see Exodus 5, hostilely, openly denying the LORD God, refusing His Commandments, and Prophet, etc. It also fulfills Sodom, in its liscentiousness, installing the goddess [a prostitute] of 'reason'.
The "street", not plural, the singular, is the broad open place [like a plaza, usually before a Gate, or at the Gate, or Temple] in Scripture which is generally the central place of judgment, and of legal setting.
And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that [was] before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel. - Nehemiah 8:1
And he read therein before the street that [was] before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people [were attentive] unto the book of the law. - Nehemiah 8:3
When I went out to the gate through the city, [when] I prepared my seat in the street! - Job 29:7
And he read therein before the street that [was] before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people [were attentive] unto the book of the law. - Nehemiah 8:3
When I went out to the gate through the city, [when] I prepared my seat in the street! - Job 29:7
Daniel 9, refers to "the street" [Daniel 9:25], which we see referred to in Ezra 7, wherein the Law of God was able to be executed once more.
Can these "two witnesses" die in the Legal Halls of France then [or even of America, today]? Yes:
And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. - Isaiah 59:14
Scripture states that the "Law" and Commandments" are Truth [Psalms 119:142,151].
God's two witnesses, the word/law and prophecy are a light, a candlestick:
NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. - Psalm 119:105
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: - 2 Peter 1:19
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: - 2 Peter 1:19
As we have seen in Zechariah 4, of which Revelation 11 is citing:
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. - Zechariah 4:6
In France, they truly, even rebelliously, rejoiced at the slaying of God's holy word, which is a type of Jesus, and thus Crucified him there in their legislative halls. It was not long after, that God brought them back to life, and exalted them before them all, historically documented -
"... The world, for the first time, heard an assembly of men, born and educated in civilization, and assuming the right to govern one of the finest of the European nations, uplift their united voice to deny the most solemn truth which man’s soul receives, and renounce unanimously the belief and worship of a Deity. ..." [Sir Walter Scott, Life of Napoleon, Vol. 1, Ch. 17; Page 239]- https://books.google.com/books?id=KnJAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
“... France is the only nation in the world concerning which the authentic record survives, that as a nation she lifted her hand in open rebellion against the Author of the universe. Plenty of blasphemers, plenty of infidels, there have been, and still continue to be, in England, Germany, Spain, and elsewhere; but France stands apart in the world’s history as the single state which, by the decree of her Legislative Assembly, pronounced that there was no God, and of which the entire population of the capital, and a vast majority elsewhere, women as well as men, danced and sang with joy in accepting the announcement.”—Blackwood’s Magazine, November, 1870 - https://books.google.com/books?id=7V4EAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
See also the documented historical evidence here - http://www.auss.info/auss_publication_file.php?pub_id=1548&journal=1&type=pdf
“... France is the only nation in the world concerning which the authentic record survives, that as a nation she lifted her hand in open rebellion against the Author of the universe. Plenty of blasphemers, plenty of infidels, there have been, and still continue to be, in England, Germany, Spain, and elsewhere; but France stands apart in the world’s history as the single state which, by the decree of her Legislative Assembly, pronounced that there was no God, and of which the entire population of the capital, and a vast majority elsewhere, women as well as men, danced and sang with joy in accepting the announcement.”—Blackwood’s Magazine, November, 1870 - https://books.google.com/books?id=7V4EAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
See also the documented historical evidence here - http://www.auss.info/auss_publication_file.php?pub_id=1548&journal=1&type=pdf
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Has to be what Rev 20:4-6 calls "The FIRST resurrection" for it is only over these that the "second death has no power" -- according to the text.
And as Paul said in 1Thess 4 "the dead in Christ rise FIRST"
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Symbolism is used in Revelation - and so the 1260 years of Rev 11 during which the two witness are under persecution -- is represented as 1260 days.
Just like the 70 weeks of Daniel nine - this is also apocalyptic writing and the days are years.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Near the end of that 1260 year period - the word of God was banned in France - the age of reason - the dark ages for France. 3.5 years.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]. It was in 1793 that the decrees which abolished the Christian religion and set aside the Bible passed the French Assembly. Three years and a half later a resolution rescinding these decrees, thus granting toleration to the Scriptures, was adopted by the same body.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "France is the only nation in the world concerning which the authentic record survives, that as a nation she lifted her hand in open rebellion against the Author of the universe. Plenty of blasphemers, plenty of infidels, there have been, and still continue to be, in England, Germany, Spain, and elsewhere; but France stands apart in the world's history as the single state which, by the decree of her Legislative Assembly, pronounced that there was no God, and of which the entire population of the capital, and a vast majority elsewhere, women as well as men, danced and sang with joy in accepting the announcement."--Blackwood's Magazine, November, 1870
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]France presented also the characteristics which especially distinguished Sodom. During the Revolution there was manifest a state of moral debasement and corruption similar to that which brought destruction upon the cities of the plain.
And I think we all know that literal Sodom is long gone.
1260 years Rev 11
3.5 years. Rev 11.
490 years - Dan 9.
2300 years - Dan 8
1260 years - Dan 7 same time as Rev 11 and Rev 12, and Rev 13 -- they all point to the dark ages.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
[FONT="]Day Year – and Methodists. Adam Clarke etc.
Methodists
Adam Clarke's commentary published in 1831 supports the interpretation that the little horn is Papal Rome by this comment "Among Protestant writers this is considered to be the popedom."[15]
He stated that the 1260-year period should commence in 755, the year Pepin the Short actually invaded Lombard territory, resulting in the Pope's elevation from a subject of the Byzantine Empire to an independent head of state.[16] The Donation of Pepin, which first occurred in 754 and again in 756 gave to the Pope temporal power of the Papal States. His time line, which began in 755 will end in 2015. But his introductory comments on Daniel 7 added 756 as an alternative commencement date [17] Based on this, commentators anticipate the end of the Papacy in 2016:
“As the date of the prevalence and reign of antichrist must, according to the principles here laid down, be fixed at A.D. 756, therefore the end of this period of his reign must be A.D. 756 added to 1260; equal to 2016, the year of the Christian era set by infinite wisdom for this long-prayed-for event. Amen and amen!" [18][19]
History
This view was recognized by the Jews[5] as seen in Daniel 9:24-27, and as seen in Jesus' use of the day-year principle in Luke 13 verses 31-33, and in the early church.[6] The day-year principle was first used in Christian exposition in 380 AD by Tychonius, who interpreted the three and a half days of Revelation 11:9 as three and a half years, writing 'three days and a half; that is, three years and six months' ('dies tres et dimidium; id est annos tres et menses sex').[7] In the 5th century Faustus of Riez gave the same interpretation of Revelation 11:9, writing 'three and a half days which correspond to three years and six months' ('Tres et dimidius dies tribus annis et sex mensibus respondent),[8] and in c. 550 Primasius also gave the same interpretation, writing 'it is possible to understand the three days and a half as three years and six months' ('Tres dies et dimidium possumus intelligere tres annos et sex menses').[8] The same interpretation of Revelation 11:9 was given by the later Christian expositors Bede (730 AD), as well as Anspert, Arethas, Haymo[disambiguation needed], and Berengaud (all of the ninth century).[8] Primasius appears to have been the first to appeal directly to previous Biblical passages in order to substantiate the principle, referring to Numbers 14:34 in support of his interpretation of the three and a half days of Revelation 11:9
.[9] Haymo and Bruno Astensis "justify it by the parallel case of Ezekiel lying on his side 390 days, to signify 390 years ; — i. e. a day for a year. — ".[10] Protestant Reformers were well established on the day/year principle and it was also accepted by many Christian groups, ministers, and theologians.[11][12][13]
Others who expounded the Historicist interpretation are John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, Phillip Melanchthon, Sir Isaac Newton, Jan Huss, John Foxe, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards,[14] George Whitefield, Charles Finney, C. H. Spurgeon, Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, Albert Barnes, E. B. Elliot, H. Grattan Guinness, and Bishop Thomas Newton as exponents of this school.[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-year_principle[/FONT]
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[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Adam Clarke Commentary[/FONT][FONT="] –
Dan 7:25
Until a time and times and the dividing of time.
In prophetic language a time signifies a year; and a prophetic year has a year for each day. Three years and a half (a day standing for a year, as in Daniel 9:24) will amount to one thousand two hundred and sixty years, if we reckon thirty days to each month, as the Jews do.
If we knew precisely when the papal power began to exert itself in the antichristian way, then we could at once fix the time of its destruction.
hint - 1798
Jamieson Fausset Brown
Dan 7:25
The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and persecution before the millennium. Witnessing churches may be succeeded by witnessing individuals, the former occupying the longer, the latter the shorter period (Re 11:3). The beginning of the 1260 years is by ELLIOTT set at A.D. 529 or 533, when Justinian's edict acknowledged Pope John II to be head of the Church; by LUTHER, at 606, when Phocas confirmed Justinian's grant. But 752 is the most likely date, when the temporal dominion of the popes began by Pepin's grant to Stephen II (for Zachary, his predecessor's recognition of his title to France), confirmed by Charlemagne. For it was then first that the little horn plucked up three horns, and so became the prolongation of the fourth secular kingdom [NEWTON]. This would bring us down to about A.D. 2000, or the seventh thousand millenary from creation.
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Methodists
Adam Clarke's commentary published in 1831 supports the interpretation that the little horn is Papal Rome by this comment "Among Protestant writers this is considered to be the popedom."[15]
He stated that the 1260-year period should commence in 755, the year Pepin the Short actually invaded Lombard territory, resulting in the Pope's elevation from a subject of the Byzantine Empire to an independent head of state.[16] The Donation of Pepin, which first occurred in 754 and again in 756 gave to the Pope temporal power of the Papal States. His time line, which began in 755 will end in 2015. But his introductory comments on Daniel 7 added 756 as an alternative commencement date [17] Based on this, commentators anticipate the end of the Papacy in 2016:
“As the date of the prevalence and reign of antichrist must, according to the principles here laid down, be fixed at A.D. 756, therefore the end of this period of his reign must be A.D. 756 added to 1260; equal to 2016, the year of the Christian era set by infinite wisdom for this long-prayed-for event. Amen and amen!" [18][19]
History
This view was recognized by the Jews[5] as seen in Daniel 9:24-27, and as seen in Jesus' use of the day-year principle in Luke 13 verses 31-33, and in the early church.[6] The day-year principle was first used in Christian exposition in 380 AD by Tychonius, who interpreted the three and a half days of Revelation 11:9 as three and a half years, writing 'three days and a half; that is, three years and six months' ('dies tres et dimidium; id est annos tres et menses sex').[7] In the 5th century Faustus of Riez gave the same interpretation of Revelation 11:9, writing 'three and a half days which correspond to three years and six months' ('Tres et dimidius dies tribus annis et sex mensibus respondent),[8] and in c. 550 Primasius also gave the same interpretation, writing 'it is possible to understand the three days and a half as three years and six months' ('Tres dies et dimidium possumus intelligere tres annos et sex menses').[8] The same interpretation of Revelation 11:9 was given by the later Christian expositors Bede (730 AD), as well as Anspert, Arethas, Haymo[disambiguation needed], and Berengaud (all of the ninth century).[8] Primasius appears to have been the first to appeal directly to previous Biblical passages in order to substantiate the principle, referring to Numbers 14:34 in support of his interpretation of the three and a half days of Revelation 11:9
.[9] Haymo and Bruno Astensis "justify it by the parallel case of Ezekiel lying on his side 390 days, to signify 390 years ; — i. e. a day for a year. — ".[10] Protestant Reformers were well established on the day/year principle and it was also accepted by many Christian groups, ministers, and theologians.[11][12][13]
Others who expounded the Historicist interpretation are John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, Phillip Melanchthon, Sir Isaac Newton, Jan Huss, John Foxe, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards,[14] George Whitefield, Charles Finney, C. H. Spurgeon, Matthew Henry, Adam Clarke, Albert Barnes, E. B. Elliot, H. Grattan Guinness, and Bishop Thomas Newton as exponents of this school.[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-year_principle[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Adam Clarke Commentary[/FONT][FONT="] –
Dan 7:25
Until a time and times and the dividing of time.
In prophetic language a time signifies a year; and a prophetic year has a year for each day. Three years and a half (a day standing for a year, as in Daniel 9:24) will amount to one thousand two hundred and sixty years, if we reckon thirty days to each month, as the Jews do.
If we knew precisely when the papal power began to exert itself in the antichristian way, then we could at once fix the time of its destruction.
hint - 1798
Jamieson Fausset Brown
Dan 7:25
The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and persecution before the millennium. Witnessing churches may be succeeded by witnessing individuals, the former occupying the longer, the latter the shorter period (Re 11:3). The beginning of the 1260 years is by ELLIOTT set at A.D. 529 or 533, when Justinian's edict acknowledged Pope John II to be head of the Church; by LUTHER, at 606, when Phocas confirmed Justinian's grant. But 752 is the most likely date, when the temporal dominion of the popes began by Pepin's grant to Stephen II (for Zachary, his predecessor's recognition of his title to France), confirmed by Charlemagne. For it was then first that the little horn plucked up three horns, and so became the prolongation of the fourth secular kingdom [NEWTON]. This would bring us down to about A.D. 2000, or the seventh thousand millenary from creation.
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That is wrong and false, again, you have fallen for the lies of a false prophetess!
That period of DAYS is yet to happen, as it will be during the coming great tribulation!
My friend, Christ died alone. There were none with Him but the Father.
We know when Christ's suffering ended:
John 19:30
King James Version (KJV)
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
He did not go to Hell, He was not separated from God in Hades, and He declared His victory over sin and death in those three momentous words. Truly...
...it was finished.
God bless.
He commited Himself to his father, and was in paradise, and he was NOT in hell to somehow complete his sufferings, as that is heretical word of faith teaching!
Agreed, He was in Paradise. Atonement was made on the Cross, not in the Lake of Fire (Hell), and not in Hades.
It was finished.
God bless.
And he was there in His spirit for those 3 days, and not in soul sleep form as those such as the SDA advocate!
For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.
“Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. “Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. Acts 2:27-31 NKJV
How can you read that and say the soul Jesus, the Christ did not go to Hades at death, which is the gates, to Hades?
How did the prophet David enter Hades OT Sheol, except though death of which, Peter said David still participated in on that very day, fifty days after the resurrection of the fruit of David's loins, Christ?
The soul, Christ was resurrected from Hades in body of flesh, which did not see corruption per Acts 2:31 and no more to return to corruption per Acts 13:34.
I think atonement was made through the shed blood because that is where the living soul of the flesh of Jesus resided. It would be in the blood, that atonement for the soul, the washing away of sin would be; But only if regeneration were made with life outside of the blood, for the soul which had shed his blood for the atonement.
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. Lev 17:11
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb 9:22 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Cor 15:3
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor 15:4
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You are welcomed to your private opinion - no matter how you express it.
In the mean time we see that these sources all promote the 1260 day for year model in Daniel 7.
I prefer the Bible.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
[FONT="]Jamieson Fausset Brown
Dan 7:25
The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and persecution before the millennium. Witnessing churches may be succeeded by witnessing individuals, the former occupying the longer, the latter the shorter period (Re 11:3). The beginning of the 1260 years is by ELLIOTT set at A.D. 529 or 533, when Justinian's edict acknowledged Pope John II to be head of the Church; by LUTHER, at 606, when Phocas confirmed Justinian's grant. But 752 is the most likely date, when the temporal dominion of the popes began by Pepin's grant to Stephen II (for Zachary, his predecessor's recognition of his title to France), confirmed by Charlemagne. For it was then first that the little horn plucked up three horns, and so became the prolongation of the fourth secular kingdom [NEWTON]. This would bring us down to about A.D. 2000, or the seventh thousand millenary from creation.
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[FONT="]Another example using the 1260 [FONT="]day model.
[FONT="]in Christ,
[FONT="]Bob[/FONT]
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Dan 7:25
The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and persecution before the millennium. Witnessing churches may be succeeded by witnessing individuals, the former occupying the longer, the latter the shorter period (Re 11:3). The beginning of the 1260 years is by ELLIOTT set at A.D. 529 or 533, when Justinian's edict acknowledged Pope John II to be head of the Church; by LUTHER, at 606, when Phocas confirmed Justinian's grant. But 752 is the most likely date, when the temporal dominion of the popes began by Pepin's grant to Stephen II (for Zachary, his predecessor's recognition of his title to France), confirmed by Charlemagne. For it was then first that the little horn plucked up three horns, and so became the prolongation of the fourth secular kingdom [NEWTON]. This would bring us down to about A.D. 2000, or the seventh thousand millenary from creation.
[FONT="]===============================
[FONT="]Another example using the 1260 [FONT="]day model.
[FONT="]in Christ,
[FONT="]Bob[/FONT]
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