I didn't 'make your case'. You two made a show case of your petty insecurities and jealousy from your petty and uncalled for accusations.
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Things accomplished by Jesus dying on the cross
- Thread starter Steven2006
- Start date
I didn't 'make your case'. You two made a show case of your petty insecurities and jealousy from your petty and uncalled for accusations.
That's the amazing thing about these verses, Ky - or would that be "Ken"? : ). The amazing thing, when you actually read and think about the verses, is that we are the undeserving beneficiaries of such an awesome salvation. A rescue mission, actually.
I may as well add the rest of what I wrote on this article.
Here is the hinge upon which much of modern evangelism turns - and it is not even in the Bible. In our witnessing we are not to labor to coerce a response, we are to faithfully announce the Gospel and trust God to bless His Word. Yes, we are to be enthusiastic (how could we be heartless with such a message?), and we are, as far as allowable, to be "all things to all people". But we are not to speak unwisely. We cannot say to a stranger, "Christ died for you", because we do not know that for a fact. After all, the world contains its "Esau's" and "Pharoah's" and those for whom Christ pointedly did not pray for, John 17:9:
"I don't pray for the world, but for those which You have given Me, for they are Yours."
He prays for those He died for. But we pray for all and speak to any, being constrained by the love of Christ, though lacking the insight of Christ.
We do not want to give false encouragement to continued false security. But neither do we want to cheapen Christ's actual accomplished benefits of God's electing love.
Here is the hinge upon which much of modern evangelism turns - and it is not even in the Bible. In our witnessing we are not to labor to coerce a response, we are to faithfully announce the Gospel and trust God to bless His Word. Yes, we are to be enthusiastic (how could we be heartless with such a message?), and we are, as far as allowable, to be "all things to all people". But we are not to speak unwisely. We cannot say to a stranger, "Christ died for you", because we do not know that for a fact. After all, the world contains its "Esau's" and "Pharoah's" and those for whom Christ pointedly did not pray for, John 17:9:
"I don't pray for the world, but for those which You have given Me, for they are Yours."
He prays for those He died for. But we pray for all and speak to any, being constrained by the love of Christ, though lacking the insight of Christ.
We do not want to give false encouragement to continued false security. But neither do we want to cheapen Christ's actual accomplished benefits of God's electing love.
To quote Pink (off the cuff):
"The Gospel is not to be offered, it is to be proclaimed."
I really appreciate the writing of this man. There was some minor points I disagreed with - I forget now what - but on the whole some good meat in his careful exposition of scripture.
[Pun alert] Though he is Pink I would still say, "Well done".
Sorry.
You continue to prove each of my points. You can't even answer the OP without adding your subjective views of scripture to it.
Again it is you, yes just YOU, who is STILL continuing to try to make a simple question about what Christ has given us at salvation, and turn it into Calvinistic thread. Just stay with your list (which was good in and of itself) and the leave the rest out as there is NO need to bring any of it into the thread at present.
Yes, you did and you 'still' are.
It isn't petty insecurities since those view are merely subjective viewing of scripture IMO. Nor is it jealoulsy when there is no call or need to make yet ANOTHER C/A thread out of a person simple question that both side agree with the answers thereof.
Allan there was no mention of C/A until YOU injected it into this thread. In Tom's original post (#7), it is apparent that he intentionally left off the contentious part of his article for the sole purpose of not derailing the thread. Then, it was YOU, Allan, YOU, that derailed the thread. Then, after YOU had derailed the thread, Tom says, “I may as well add the rest of what I wrote on this article”.
Your attack on him, and your petty accusations were unjustified. You are the one that is guilty of the very thing you accuse him of.
That was indeed the reason why I left that part out.
You know, I guess this really is a no-win situation. When they say things like "Why can't you just leave your Calvinism out of this?" (words to that effect) they are actually asking us to - from our point of view - deny the essence of our faith. Because, even though we don't always set out to write "Calvinistically" it will always come up time and again - in the same way their arminianism will creep up time and again.
It can't be helped. So this leaves us with the importance of being courteous, which I will strive to do. And I hope for the same from others. And may the Spirit of God who gives grace to the gracious bring all of us closer to the truth in Christ.
Tom, that is indeed one point that I've noticed about you; you are neither discourteous or condescending in any of you posts, even when you are defending yourself, and for that I salute you. We should all be as such.
Somehow I missed this post. Thank you.
I know that all of us cross the line from time to time. It is ironic that these discussion groups can be, at the same time, helpful and harmful. Helpful because - when carried out in mutual respect - conversations here can be really challenging learning opportunities. The harmful part, of course, is when more heat is generated then light. Then we all ultimately end up grieving the Spirit, the One who is the Author of all our spiritual growth. I try to keep that last thing in mind: Much better to seem to lose an argument than to miss out on teachings from God out of mere carnal belligerence.
I see at some point you were able to dislodge that beam?
Have you been reading the same posts I have
