This is an ugly political race

[Magnetic Poles]

Eliminate the super PACs and retract the Citizens United decision.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I don't accept that, and I'm sorry if this is derailing the thread a bit, but I consider this an important issue. I'm sick and tired of every time the Dems/libs do one more even more disgusting thing, both people on their side and holier-than-thou types like you just say, 'Well, your side is just as bad." NO, we are NOT. We are talking here about one side accusing the other's presidential candidate of being responsible for someone's death, and the accusation is patently false and laden with supporting lies. I defy you to give me an example of anything that any conservative or conservative group has done within our lifetimes that comes close to rivaling that. And if you cannot, you have NO moral right to make the assumption that some conservative or group is going to do it ('pretty certain' still qualifies as an assumption that it will happen). And I would remind you that this 'derailing' is happening because of your own absurd statement, and refusal to meaningfully back away from it.

Sorry, I am going no further in fulfilling your demands - I stand by my amended statement. Watch over the next months and see.

I don't accept that you have the power to determine what moral rights I have or don't have on this board. I am not required to meet your demands and will respond no further.

 

[Crabtownboy]

That's not the question. You are saying you are SURE that some GOP supporting PAC will stoop as low as this ad. That's an extremely unfair assumption, and in my opinion, conduct unbefitting a board administrator. Of course, you have made these kind of statements before. Your agenda seems to be to never admit that either party is better than the other in any way, no matter what extremes are involved. I'M sure that if Obama came out for a press conference and killed all of the reporters with a machine gun, you would say, "Well, I'm sure Romney will blow away a room full of reporters too before November."

The past is hard to know, the future is impossible to know.

But let's look as some of the "stoop as low" tactics of Republicans in the past ...............

Willie Horton ... the total misrepresentation of the story.
The Swiftboaters ... character assassination
The Birthers ... totally illogical and impossible attacks
Troopergate and Arkansas Project... bribery for false statements
Falsely attacking a person's patriotism ... Max Cleland an example
Leaking classified information to reporters .... i.e. Valerie Plame
Spreading lies that Kerry would ban the Bible in America if elected president
Making illegal robo calls claiming it is Democrats who are calling

There is lots more, but you see they do not have clean hands.

 

[carpro]

I agree - 'Citizens United' was a terrible decision and will change electioneering forever.

Saying that, President Obama is wrong for not distancing himself from this ad and the Super-PAC who created it.

Funny.

Democrats are entirely OK with unions contributing millions and millions of dollars to them with money they have confiscated from their members, but not with contributions given voluntarily.

Figures.

 

[carpro]

The past is hard to know, the future is impossible to know.

But let's look as some of the "stoop as low" tactics of Republicans in the past ...............

Willie Horton ... the total misrepresentation of the story.
The Swiftboaters ... character assassination
The Birthers ... totally illogical and impossible attacks
Troopergate and Arkansas Project... bribery for false statements
Falsely attacking a person's patriotism ... Max Cleland an example
Leaking classified information to reporters .... i.e. Valerie Plame
Spreading lies that Kerry would ban the Bible in America if elected president
Making illegal robo calls claiming it is Democrats who are calling

There is lots more, but you see they do not have clean hands.

Entirely off topic as usual. But...

I love the Swiftboat Veterans for the Truth the most. They were truthful and honest with nothing to gain and they destroyed the candicacy of a traitor!!!:thumbs::applause::applause::applause:

Well done!!

 

[Walguy]

Sorry, I am going no further in fulfilling your demands - I stand by my amended statement. Watch over the next months and see.

I don't accept that you have the power to determine what moral rights I have or don't have on this board. I am not required to meet your demands and will respond no further.

If you had lived in Wisconsin for the past 2 years like me and had seen the abominable behavior of the Democrats here (both politicians and public union leaders and members) close up like I have, you would understand why I bristle so much at suggestions of equality of depravity between the parties and movements. So go ahead and continue to live in your little fantasy world where everyone is equally horrible except you, if that makes you feel better about yourself. I have no doubt that you will find something somewhere that you can define as 'just as vile,' even tho it will fall well short in the eyes of any objective person, because if you don't you would have to admit you were wrong, and we both know that's never going to happen.

 

[Mexdeaf]

If you had lived in Wisconsin for the past 2 years like me and had seen the abominable behavior of the Democrats here (both politicians and public union leaders and members) close up like I have, you would understand why I bristle so much at suggestions of equality of depravity between the parties and movements. So go ahead and continue to live in your little fantasy world where everyone is equally horrible except you, if that makes you feel better about yourself. I have no doubt that you will find something somewhere that you can define as 'just as vile,' even tho it will fall well short in the eyes of any objective person, because if you don't you would have to admit you were wrong, and we both know that's never going to happen.

Walguy,

Perhaps you don't know this, but C4K is an American missionary in Ireland and he has probably the most objective viewpoint on USA politics of anyone on the BB. While I can understand and appreciate your feelings, I also understand C4K's perspective. He's just "calling them as he sees them" just as you are.

Mex

 

[Aaron]

Funny.

Democrats are entirely OK with unions contributing millions and millions of dollars to them with money they have confiscated from their members, but not with contributions given voluntarily.

Figures.

Absolutely. Socialists can only gain power when the Democrats control speech. They lose it when Conservatives free it.

 

[Walguy]

Walguy,

Perhaps you don't know this, but C4K is an American missionary in Ireland and he has probably the most objective viewpoint on USA politics of anyone on the BB. While I can understand and appreciate your feelings, I also understand C4K's perspective. He's just "calling them as he sees them" just as you are.

Mex

I respect all that, and perhaps he's just trying too hard to be objective, but he comes across as very self-righteous on this subject, and his opinions don't match the facts. This ad and everything that surrounds it is a new low, and it's very unfair to say that you are 'sure' or even 'pretty sure' that there are Republicans ready to plunge to the same depths when there is no evidence to suggest that.

Having said that, I do want to back off from the inflammatory tone of some of my previous remarks. I stand by the substance, but I should have expressed it in a nicer manner. I'm human, I make mistakes, and I can admit it when I make one. See, Roger? It's not that hard to do.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I respect all that, and perhaps he's just trying too hard to be objective, but he comes across as very self-righteous on this subject, and his opinions don't match the facts. This ad and everything that surrounds it is a new low, and it's very unfair to say that you are 'sure' or even 'pretty sure' that there are Republicans ready to plunge to the same depths when there is no evidence to suggest that.

Having said that, I do want to back off from the inflammatory tone of some of my previous remarks. I stand by the substance, but I should have expressed it in a nicer manner. I'm human, I make mistakes, and I can admit it when I make one. See, Roger? It's not that hard to do.

Anyone who knows me from this board or anywhere else knows I have no problem admitting it when I am wrong. We will see in November if I need to admit error or not.

I have watched to two parties for a long, long time. I know that neither party is virtuous. Beside, PAC actions are supposedly not controlled but the parties. I never said that the GOP would do this, but that a GOP leaning PAC probably/certainly will. I would hope that if/when a right leaning PAC makes this kind of charge that the GOP, unlike the Democrats, will distance themselves.

But we will see.

 

[billwald]

>Democrats are entirely OK with unions contributing millions and millions of dollars to them with money they have confiscated from their members, but not with contributions given voluntarily.


Unions must form PACS with voluntary contributions. It is the law.

 

[Walguy]

Anyone who knows me from this board or anywhere else knows I have no problem admitting it when I am wrong. We will see in November if I need to admit error or not.

That's what you're still not getting. You've already made a mistake by assuming people are going to do something far worse than anything they have a history of doing. If you had said, "I wouldn't be surprised if it happened," that would be fine. Then it's strictly about you. But by saying you are pretty sure it will happen, you are impugning the character of people who have never done anything near what is being referenced or given any indication that they ever would. THAT'S what's unfair about what you've said, and it's a mistake you've already made. People should be judged on what they do, not on what someone thinks they MIGHT do.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

That's what you're still not getting. You've already made a mistake by assuming people are going to do something far worse than anything they have a history of doing. If you had said, "I wouldn't be surprised if it happened," that would be fine. Then it's strictly about you. But by saying you are pretty sure it will happen, you are impugning the character of people who have never done anything near what is being referenced or given any indication that they ever would. THAT'S what's unfair about what you've said, and it's a mistake you've already made. People should be judged on what they do, not on what someone thinks they MIGHT do.

This thread is not about me and my feelings about what will happen. It is about the ugly race we are in. I am pretty certain both sides will be just as ugly. If I am proven wrong I will admit my error.

You can press all you want - I won't admit my error until I am proven wrong. I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

We have no history to look back on. This is the first election in which Super-PACs will have a major impact. I have no doubt that the PACs will play very dirty politics no matter who they support. It is going to be a very, very ugly political race.

The issue is going to be how the parties respond. If they don't respond properly this new ugliness will be the norm in elections to come. Obama and Co have proven that they are not going to play the game right. Lets see how the GOP responds when they find themselves in the same situation. I hope they will rise above the fray, but don't have a lot of confidence.