This is getting bizarre!

Bizzare indeed! Bizzare that so many Baptist people would defend a man who flatly rejects the whole idea of Christ bearing the punishment for our sins.

It is evident that Mr. Lewis was just another vain philosopher who formulated a new Christianity with which the agnostics and infidels of this world could be comfortable. And then had the unmitigated gall to call it "mere" - which is to say pure - Christianity.

This is bizzare indeed, bizzare that so many Baptists take the lies of a writer of fairy tales over the words of the Holy Bible.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]Bro. Mark,
You have very selectively quoted here. I read this myself the other night. What he is doing here is posing some objections that people might have. THEN he ANSWERS them. You left out that part. Including it changes things.

Karen

 

Bizzare indeed! Bizzare that so many Baptist people would defend a man who flatly rejects the whole idea of Christ bearing the punishment for our sins.

It is evident that Mr. Lewis was just another vain philosopher who formulated a new Christianity with which the agnostics and infidels of this world could be comfortable. And then had the unmitigated gall to call it "mere" - which is to say pure - Christianity.

This is bizzare indeed, bizzare that so many Baptists take the lies of a writer of fairy tales over the words of the Holy Bible.

Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]Bro. Mark,
You have very selectively quoted here. I read this myself the other night. What he is doing here is posing some objections that people might have. THEN he ANSWERS them. You left out that part. Including it changes things.

Karen </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, Mark has completely misrepresented Lewis' actual position by selective quoting. Mark did you do this accidently or deliberately?

 

I'll agree that Baptists who were alive in 1792 have indeed stopped relying on the Bible, but I think that has more to do with the fact that they're all dead than it does anything else.

Because I am sure that this isn't what you meant, I confess that I don't understand what your real meaning is.

Please expound further.

Thanks!

 

Karen and Paul,

I did not mis-represent Lewis' view. He presented the view given above, which is the Scriptural one, dubbed it "silly" and the proceeded to give his contrived and muddy theory as to how Christ's death saves us.

If you insist, I can quote the whole passage and show that it is you who have misrepresented me, not I who have misrepresented Lewis.

Mark Osgatharp

 

I wish I had time to read and worry about Lewis' meaning.

I have enough to do to read and try to understand Scripture.

Dear CCRobinson,
I meant that when Baptists began to view the gospel as the agent of regeneration, they left off in trusting scripture.

Bro. Dallas

 

I agree with you Helen,

There seems to be too many people worried about if someone is a Christian or not.

It's not a question we will ever know the answer to, in fact we can only assume or guess. We can look at their works and see if it's Christ-Like, but ONLY God knows who his children are.

If everyone that keeps starting threads about this person or that person being saved were to talk to the people in their area, and spend as much time witnessing to those people I believe more people would be saved.

Of course, some people only like to stir the pot, they don't really care about the issue, they only want to get attention by asking questions that have no real answer.

Jamie

 

I'm not so sure it's a question of judgment (Well..mabey for some) as of a type of hope. Ever hear when someone who is well known in the world dies & wonder to your self .... I hope that person was saved? I find myself doing it at time...espicially if it was someone I liked. Take ..Oh say John Denver for example. In the world view he was a good man that wrote good music. I was watching a show on him on PBS over the weekend & did wonder if mabey at some point he had met Christ. Actually I hoped he had cause it's not easy to think of someone that "nice" being in hell.
Take Saddam on the other hand. Would we give his possible salvation a second thought? Most of us would not, & might even hope he drops into hell for what he's done to other people. Now thats being judgemental I guess!
But thats also being "Human".

 

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

In other words, we cannot regard the man as a believer. These are the words of Christ, not the Catholic church.

The goal is repentance. Where it cannot be acheived there is need to separate an unrepentant one, but there is no Biblical warrant for our judging their hearts.

I challenge you to find one post of mine where I said we're to judge one's heart. When one is cut off from fellowship, the goal is the purity of the church, 1 Cor. 5:7. If one is truly regenerated, then he will repent. But until then he has disqualified himself from the Lord's table. He is to us as an unbeliever.

About those who have shown themselves to not be Baptist, I guess we have a different idea of what a Baptist is so I will only say that I don't understand your statement.

This will help you.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/10/5813.html####14

In the OP, it was stated, "I beg you to stop the nonsense of trying to judge others. That is not our place. Ever." But as I've shown, we are to judge others, 1 Cor. 5:12. The questions posed concerning Lewis, the message of Narnia, and anything else as it relates to the doctrines of Christ are eminent questions and I'm glad they're being discussed.

Actually, my post was also eminently Scriptural. You simply reacted to your impression of what I was saying instead of to what was actually said. I noticed a lot of assertions about what this or that is really for, but no appeal to Scripture. So it wasn't the substance of the post you reacted to, it was me. Were you judging me?

 

No I was not judging you. I don't care what you believe. I went back and read my previous post. there is nothing in it that would imply I am judging you for anything, nor that I am reacting to you, I addressed your post only.

Not one of the scripture you presented supports your belief of our judging the heart of others in regards to their position in Christ.

Study the word 'judge' sometime.

Nowhere in the act of correct church discipline are we said to be 'judging anyone.

There is only one judge and that is neither me, nor you, nor the baptists.

Bro. Dallas

 

Merry Christmas to all....& to all a Good Night!!

 

Helen of course we are to judge ! read the whole chapter. The bible is very clear we are to judge sound doctrine "truth" and sin. Otherwise you would have to throw out many verses.

The only reason I asked about Solomon is because a lady in bible study made the statement that Solomon was never saved due to his life style and following after false gods. We are studying assurance of salvation which I know she believes you cannot lose.

Matthew 18----1 Corinthians 5. judging and dealing with those who are in sin

2 Timothy 4:1-5, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."

What it Means to Test the Spirits. http://www.creationists.org/testthespirits.html

1. Every believer has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. In 3:24, we learned last week that God "have given us… the Spirit." In chapter 2, John calls the presence of the Spirit "the anointing which you have received from Him…"

2. God has given us His indwelling Spirit but John now points out that there are other "spirits" loose in the world. If we have the Spirit, we ought to "test the Spirits."

3. Christians often test teaching by how it sounds, the words used, the inflection of the voice, the stories told, if it moves them or makes them feel good. None of these are appropriate tests. "Test" in v.4 means "to approve or examine." The term was used of gold put in the fire to test its purity.

4. There are two categories of spirits operating in the world. When someone proposes to speak for God, you should "test the spirits" or you might "amen" the wrong spirit! I’ve been in some churches where they would "amen" almost anything.

5. Behind every prophet is a spirit. The great question is does the Spirit of God or an evil spirit lead this teacher. Before we trust any teacher, we must "test the spirits."

6. Paul wrote in 1 Thess.5:20-22, "Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good."

7. Jesus warned in Mt.7:15-16, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits…"

8. Paul warned the Ephesian elders in Acts 20:29, "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock."

9. Peter also offered this warning in 2 Pet.2:1, "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction."

10. Today there is still a great need for biblical discernment and discrimination. Many believers remain biblically illiterate and spiritually gullible. They naively accept any teaching as truth.

11. In Eph.4:14, Paul says that a sure sign of spiritual immaturity is "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting."

 

Jesus said that by their fruits you will know them; if those who profess to be saved live in a way not compatible with their profession how then can they be saved? Moreover, if people believe things clearly contrary to the Bible how then can they be saved?

Many Church of England vicars and bishops are clearly not saved because they believe the most outrageous things. The current Archbishop of Canterbury supports gays. The evidence in these cases is clear.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

 

Dear SunnyDays,
#5 in the list above is enough to make me want to test the spirit.

Prophecy is ended with the close of Revelation.

What do you mean by the word prophet?

There is a continual scriptural use of the word, but not the way most Christians receive it today.

Bro. Dallas

 

To have the gift of prophecy is to be able to proclaim the word of God. Doesn't always refer to pastors, it refers to anyone proclaiming Gods word. the author mentions teachers.

 

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.

Though I never advocated judging a person's eternal standing before God, the heart is not off limits. Those we can judge as unbelievers:

</font>

• Those who confess they do not believe</font>
• Those who say Christ is accursed</font>
• Those with heretical views</font>
• Those who in their works deny Christ</font>

And the list goes on. Christ said we will know a a false prophet by his fruits, whether or not he is a sheep.

 

Sunnydays,
I do not disagree with you. It is not necessarily speaking or limiting to those who speak God's word, but also speaks of the people glorifying God in their worship.

1 Cor. 14 I think.

Helen, again there is much sound wisdom in your words.

Amen.

Let us continually strive to try the words and the teaching and leave off at the secret things that belong to God.

John said I think int he same context that they went out from "US" because they were not of "US".

Speaking of the church, local and visible, but not toward their NOT being of God the Father.

We sometimes forget the spirit we are of.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

Yes Aaron, yes. But we still cannot judge. We can make decisions regarding fellowship, but we cannot judge.

To judge carries with it an inherent ability to condemn. We do not possess that ability. Paul nor the Apostles never spoke of the church, nor individual beleivers having that ability.

Jesus never spoke of our having that ability.

All power in Heaven and Earth are given to Him; and as He was upon Earth and even Now as He is in Heaven, He alone has power to forgive sins on Earth. Matt. 9:6.

Bro. Dallas

 

Jesus said stop judging by outward appearence and make righteous judgements.