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This made me sick!

D28guy

New Member
Magnetic poles,

I said...

People can live here and be any of those other religions and they will not be persecuted. They can worship as they please. But if they start with this insanity that they are being supposedly *persecuted* because we dont acknowledge their understanding of God in our governmental meetings or public schools, etc, then we simply tell them...

"Sorry, but thats because this country is founded on the acknowledgment of the CHRISTIAN understanding of God. You will just have to put up with that if you want to live here. We will never stop you from worshipping as you please at home or in your place of worship, but YOU will have to put up with this arrangement if you want to live here.""


And you said...

"Which is a direct establishment of religion (Christianity) in violation of the First Amendment. To do what you say, you'd need to repeal the First Amendment. Also, I have a news flash for you...ALL religions think theirs is the "TRUE" God."

Good grief, someone has really worked a number on you. Are you a member of the ACLU by any chance?

Nooo, M.P., it is not an establishment of religion. To be in violation of that principle we would have to outlaw all other religions but christianity, with the subsequent arrests and prosecutions, expultions from the country, etc.

Anyone can worship as they please in this country. Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Wicca, New Age, Muslim etc etc etc etc.

But they have to understand what our roots are and why they will hear and see these little reminders of what is the religous basis for our country. They have no obligation whatsoever to go along with these small acknowledgments if they dont want to, since we have no state sponsored religion that people must heed.

But they need to simply understand why we say and do these things and just put up with it.

I would never move to Japan and then start demanding that they remove all symbols or acknowledgments of the predominant religion there since I happen to be christian.

That would be insanity to do so.

Mike


 

D28guy

New Member
M.P.,

"Mike, now you are just embarrasing yourself."

I gave up caring about that decades ago. :laugh: :laugh:

"If you can find any passages "CHILSED (SIC) IN STONE" it makes no difference...buildings are not the laws."

I never said they were. But they are just one among many things that show what the foundations of our country are based on regarding Divine providence.

"Please put down your David Barton books long enough to read "

I dont have any David Barton books.

Mike
 

Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Religiosity ad nausiciam

Nice to have a forum where we can say what we think--sometimes, so long as it agrees with the majority. Problem is: in the world of religion, the majority is usually wrong about Jehovah.

G. Washington, one of our founding fathers, was a follower of GAOTU, along with many cohorts. Then there is Jos. Smith Jr., who still has a crowd numbering in the millions. Yes, GAOTU is alive and well. So is Allah. We have F&AM and LDS in high places even today. Now what? What does all of this have to do with The Way, The Truth and The Life?

We do err, not knowing the scripture and the power of God. This is the fulfillment of prophecy.

The Light of the Gospel will always be at odds with the world system. Who is on your altar?:BangHead:

Selah,

Bro. James
 

Dale-c

Active Member
Most people know G. Washington was referring to God Almighty. He was a Christian man.
And even if he was not, doesn't change much really.
The duty of civil government to obey God is the same.
 

pinoybaptist

Active Member
Site Supporter
Dale-c said:
The duty of civil government to obey God is the same.

I know there is Scripture telling Christians to submit and obey civil government, except in very extreme cases.

But, I do not recall ever coming across Scripture commanding a Gentile civil government to obey God.

Could you provide one ?
 

Bro. James

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
G. Washington and GAOTU

GAOTU is not Elohim nor Jehovah in actuality; it can be any deity one likes--including Allah.

The real question is: How many of our founding fathers believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the the Living God--therefore, God in the flesh? See Mt. 16.

There is no compelling evidence that many of our forefathers were "earnestly contending for The Faith, once, for all, delivered to the saints". Jude 3.

True freedom of religious conscience, something which many immigrants were seeking in the New World, has been slow in fruition in the U.S. Those who would have a state religion are in the majority in many areas of the country, albeit, covertly and subtly. On the other hand, ecumenism is on the upswing--the daughters of Rome are returning to their Mother--according to her rules.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Selah,

Bro. James
 

Dale-c

Active Member
I know there is Scripture telling Christians to submit and obey civil government, except in very extreme cases.

But, I do not recall ever coming across Scripture commanding a Gentile civil government to obey God.
Could you provide one ?
Sure can!
Psalm 2

1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.



It says my post is too short.....
 

JustChristian

New Member
D28guy said:
God help us.

When we start allowing hindu/buddhist/muslim etc prayers to be prayed rather than prayers to the true God...the God who's worship this country was founded on...its all over for us. We have finally hit rock bottom, and thats not a good place to be considering who it is we are turning our back on and offending.

May God richly bless those faithful brothers and sisters that where heard objecting and praying to the living God.

May God have mercy on the rest.

Sadly,

Mike


God is believed in and worshipped by individuals not by countries. If enough individuals in America start truely believing in and following Jesus Christ then our country will change. Unfortunately, most self-proclaimed "christians" in America are unwilling to do this. They believe that since they live in a "christian" country that's enough. Eternally sadly, they're wrong.
 

D28guy

New Member
BaptistBeliever...

"God is believed in and worshipped by individuals not by countries. If enough individuals in America start truely believing in and following Jesus Christ then our country will change. Unfortunately, most self-proclaimed "christians" in America are unwilling to do this. They believe that since they live in a "christian" country that's enough. Eternally sadly, they're wrong."

Could you elaborate on that statement? Maybe it was just a bad choice of words or something.

The reason I ask is that I have been born again since 1982, and have been a part of the christian "culture" the same amount of time, and I have never encountered a single christian who believes that because they live in a "christian" nation they will go to heaven.

I have however unfortunetly met many christians who believe that because they are a "card carrying" *member* of some particular Christian denomination they are now good for heaven.

Is that what you meant to say?

Mike
 

DeeJay

New Member
Dale-c said:
No, that is NOT what government is supposed to do. They are ministers of God.
PLease read Romans 13.
Then perhaps read Psalm 2.

Our goverment was intended to represent all of the people who are citizens of it. Not all of the founding fathers were Christians and it says nothing about not representing non Christians.

And your idea is pretty frightining because we would need somebody to decide who is Christian and who is not.
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Magnetic Poles said:
Mike,

Mind showing us where in the Constitution of the United States this is stated?

The Constitution is only the nuts and the bolts of the national government. The spirit of the law is clearly defined in the Declaration of Independence. It spells out the purpose of a government and when a people can justly overthrow it.

It states adamantly that the Creator God is the One to be recognized by the state. It's only when men acknowledge God that rights can be secured and protected.
 

Dale-c

Active Member
Our goverment was intended to represent all of the people who are citizens of it. Not all of the founding fathers were Christians and it says nothing about not representing non Christians.

And your idea is pretty frightining because we would need somebody to decide who is Christian and who is not.
What does that have to do with the Biblical duty of civil government?

Also, when did I say we needed someone to "decide" who was christian and who wasn't?
 

JustChristian

New Member
D28guy said:
God help us.

When we start allowing hindu/buddhist/muslim etc prayers to be prayed rather than prayers to the true God...the God who's worship this country was founded on...its all over for us. We have finally hit rock bottom, and thats not a good place to be considering who it is we are turning our back on and offending.

May God richly bless those faithful brothers and sisters that where heard objecting and praying to the living God.

May God have mercy on the rest.

Sadly,

Mike

All I ask is that we legally declare that Christianity is the official religion of the US and that no other religions will be allowed. Now, does that include Catholicism or not? Does it include the Mormons? What about the Seventh Day Adventists? The British official religion in the Anglican religion. I guess we'll just have to declare the Baptist religion as the only accepted religion in America. Does that include the CBT? What about American Baptists? Cobblestone only? It goes opn and on when you start down the path of restricting religions freedom which America REALLY WAS founded upon.

Great Britain has an official religion but church attendance has gone down there to about 20%. Is that what we want, unfree and few?
 

Dale-c

Active Member
Are you aware that there were many state churches here up into the 1830s?
I believe Massachusetts was the last to end.

The problem was that there were multiple state churches of differing denominations.
The first amendment protected one state church from favor or harassment from the federal union.
Just as it protected from a Union church, it also protected the states right to have a state church.
I am not saying I agree with this, just the way it was.
 

JustChristian

New Member
D28guy said:
BaptistBeliever...



Could you elaborate on that statement? Maybe it was just a bad choice of words or something.

The reason I ask is that I have been born again since 1982, and have been a part of the christian "culture" the same amount of time, and I have never encountered a single christian who believes that because they live in a "christian" nation they will go to heaven.

I have however unfortunetly met many christians who believe that because they are a "card carrying" *member* of some particular Christian denomination they are now good for heaven.

Is that what you meant to say?

Mike

Something like 80% of all Americans say that they are Christians. I doubt that half actually more like 10 % of them are born again. The rest profess to be Christians but I believe that they're on the wide road to Hell.
 
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By Faith

New Member
Magnetic Poles said:
This is why we should not have any prayers or invocations in government meetings. Freedom of Religion means ANY religion. You cannot have it both ways and still have religious liberty. If we get state sponsored prayer back in school, you'll see more of this...just one reason I am against that too.


The "Freedom of Religion" was to worship God as you see fit or according the scriptures without anyone telling you how. It was not for worshipping any god. Read the Old Testament! God is a jealous God. We will pay for this as a country. I think we should stop worrying about offending people and start worrying about offending God!
 
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pinoybaptist

Active Member
Site Supporter
By Faith said:
The "Freedom of Religion" was to worship God as you see fit or according the scriptures without anyone telling you how. It was not for worshipping any god.

Therefore, according to your logic, the right to worship God belongs only to Americans, specifically, white Americans, who are descended from the Mayflower pilgrims, because, if I understand correctly, it was precisely religious intolerance in the Olde Country that caused them to flee to the New World.

Taking that statement a little farther on, Freedom of Religion belongs only to Baptists being that most of those pilgrims of old were Baptists and Puritans (but herein I might be very wrong).

I truly admire your candor here, brother.

But unfortunately, the United States is a victim of its own democracy and reputation as a tolerant and free country (although considering the fact that blacks were hung in the South as late as the early 30's I don't know where I got the idea that the US is considered a tolerant country).

It has the reputation, and I am sure you are proud of it as well, of being a country which is a "melting pot of all races", to whom the poor and the oppressed of other lands go.

Unfortunately, again, not all of these "poor and oppressed" of other lands know the God which you, I, and many others on this board profess to know, and politicians MUST therefore let them worship the way they think it proper to worship whoever it is they worship. Hey, these are future naturalized citizens, translation: voters, dig ?

You cannot impose and make a requirement that they worship Jehovah, or Jesus, or the Triune God, if they do not know who this God is, nor believe in this God we worship.
byFaith said:
Read the Old Testament! God is a jealous God. We will pay for this as a country.

And with this I wholeheartedly agree. And I believe the "paying" has long ago began.

However, this is way beyond our control, and remember that we live in a fallen world.

Let God be God, and Judge.

Why don't we just worry about our own personal standing before Him ?


byFaith said:
I think we should stop worrying about offending people

In a sense, I agree again.
I was in DC last week. Flew. And let me tell you, I was thinking dark thoughts against Muslims, any Muslim, for the inconvenience of security checks.

Take off your shoes, remove all metals from your pockets, take out the laptop from the case, yadayadayada......

And they are soon going to be provided a prayer room in the airports ?

Ohlala, mama mia, que paso, que paso !!!!

by Faith said:
........and start worrying about offending God !

Now, that is a statement I cannot wholeheartedly agree with, if you mean as a country. This country is a political land, not a religious one.

However, on a personal level, we can work on consciously avoiding to offend God.
 
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