This Oughta Be Interesting....

[DeeJay]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Amen, JGrubbs.

Funny, Doctors take that Hippocratical oath to preserve life and then suck the life out of innocent babies.

I guess it is easy to de-humanize somebody when you dont have to look into their eyes. I see no difference in killing an un-born baby and a one month old baby.

I have watched two of my kids being born and they are defenantly little miricals, gifts from God. Anybody who could cold heartedly kill a baby because they are selfish has nothing but evil in them.

I am going to go out on a limb and say, A true Christian who has the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of him or her could never take any part in an abortion. People who take part in this need to know Christ and need to repent and be forgiven.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Amen, DeeJay!

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
institute strict laws against sexual relations outside of marriage

No way. I have no desire to see a Taliban-like "Christian theocracy" set up in the United States.

 

[Blackhawkk]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Diggin in da Word:
One has no right to abort a baby, no matter what the situation.

What about those who do not agree with you? After all, they are the ones who must answer for their actions, not you and not me.

Regards,
BiR </font>[/QUOTE]BiR,

You really need to examine your name and your spirit. You are basically justifying any sin under the sun because people won't agree writh us. There is a thing about right and wrong. The Bible clearly states what that is.

I can't believe Christians are having this discussion. What "Christian" in their right mind could justify abortion?! What a sorry state His church is in nowadays. There are plenty of people on this board who seriously need to repent and seek God's truth instead of doing what they think is right in their own eyes.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Amen, Blackhawkk!

 

[PastorMark]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DeeJay:
BinR

Should we leagalize everything then. What about people who disagree with me about child abuse, or drug use, or rape, being wrong.

Should we leagalize rape, after all it will be the rapest that answers for his actions not you or me?

Sound reasonable?

Hey, no problem: if that is what you want, then it's fine by me.
Are you planning on adopting any of those children?

BiR </font>[/QUOTE]2 Timothy 3:1-7 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

God said it, we witness it!

Pastor Mark.

 

[SeekingTruth]

Blackhawk and PastorMark, Amen and Amen.

It is sad to see professing Christians state, as BiR has done at least indirectly, that since only those who commit an act ansswer to it, then everything should be legal. I believe the Bible clearly teaches that it is the responsibility of the believer to stand for the right vigorously and vocally. BiR seems to object to that.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by DeeJay:
If the Lord lays it on my heart to adopt a child I would love to.

In fact I can see my self having adopted children. I would love to. One thing I know for sure is I will not be killing children. And I dont see as how the question of if I would like to adopt has any berring on the murder of children.

Should we kill homeless people? If not are you going to adopt them into your home?

Again, I have no problem with that. I am glad to hear you are willing to do it should the Lord lead you to do this. I certainly expect those who feel so strongly about this topic to be at the front of the line for adopting these children.

As for killing homeless people, I did not address this issue, nor did I introduce this into the discussion.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Hey, no problem: if that is what you want, then it's fine by me.

What? are you saying you have no problem de-criminalizing rape? </font>[/QUOTE]Nope, and I am sure that you already knew that. I am not the one who introduced the topic of "de-criminalizing rape" into this discussion. I was talking about your desire to see this law passed.


Regards,
BiR

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by PastorMark:
2 Timothy 3:1-7 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

God said it, we witness it!

I don't think any of us would disagree with the thought that we are witnessing this in our time.

Regards,
BiR

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Blackhawkk:
BiR,

You really need to examine your name and your spirit. You are basically justifying any sin under the sun because people won't agree writh us. There is a thing about right and wrong. The Bible clearly states what that is.

I can't believe Christians are having this discussion. What "Christian" in their right mind could justify abortion?! What a sorry state His church is in nowadays. There are plenty of people on this board who seriously need to repent and seek God's truth instead of doing what they think is right in their own eyes.

You really need to calm down, take a deep breath, and re-read what I have written. I have never condoned abortion, and to suggest otherwise is being intellectually dishonest. Please show me where anyone has extolled abortion on this board. I certainly haven't and I cannot recall seeing anyone support the act of abortion.

Although I am pro-life, I am not responsible for the actions of others. If someone is going to murder an unborn child, then that is between them and God. They alone must give account for their actions.

Please refrain from attributing things to me that I have not said.

Regards,
BiR

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Diggin in da Word:
It does not matter who on this earth they disagree or agree with. God's Word is true. He says, 'Thou shalt not kill', I know He meant it. He said that our bodies were bought and we do not own our bodies, I believe it.

Not sure where you are going with this, but okay.

Would you like your son or daughter to get nose, eyebrow, tongue, or any other body parts pierced? or have hooks stuck in their backs and hung from the ceiling by wires and the hooks?
You would stop it, whould you not? Or at least express your displeasure that such actions were taken?

If they are minor children, or adult children living in my house, then no: I would not allow it. If they are adults, then I have no say in the matter. I can only hope that raising them in the Word of God would empower them with the discernment to know better. Ultimately, they must give an account of their actions.

Well God has not only expressed displeasure, but also forbidden murder. He did not say thou shalt not kill adults only, He said Thou shalt not kill. Covers every man, woman, child, and fetus.

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord and the fruit of the womb His reward. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them.

Two things:
1. Nobody is disagreeing with the statement that abortion is murder. I have stated in other forums that the same reason I am pro-life is why I am against the death penalty.
2. There are many Americans who are not Christians and do not acknowledge our God. They alone must give account for their actions.

An off-topic yes/no question: based on what you have said here, do you also believe that birth control is murder? In other words, if a fertilized egg is prevented from attaching to the uterus, is that also murder?

Regards,
BiR

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
It is sad to see professing Christians state, as BiR has done at least indirectly, that since only those who commit an act ansswer to it, then everything should be legal. I believe the Bible clearly teaches that it is the responsibility of the believer to stand for the right vigorously and vocally. BiR seems to object to that.

Here's a tip: if you must qualify something as being said "indirectly," then it wasn't said. Baptist in Richmond is not accountable for the actions of others. If BiR IS accountable, then please provide the Scriptural justification for such a belief.

Please do not attribute thoughts/comments/ideas to me when I never said them. I do not support abortion, nor have I supported it in this discussion - which is why you had to make the claim that it was done "indirectly."

Regards anyway,
BiR

 

[DeeJay]

BiR

You say that you believe that abortion is murder.

1. Nobody is disagreeing with the statement that abortion is murder. I have stated in other forums that the same reason I am pro-life is why I am against the death penalty.

But you also hold to the stance that it is up to each individual to decide if they are going to commit this murder.

Although I am pro-life, I am not responsible for the actions of others. If someone is going to murder an unborn child, then that is between them and God. They alone must give account for their actions.

My question to you is why do you apply this standard to abortion but not to other murders? I assume (correct me if I am wrong) that you would strongly oppose allowing people to kill one year olds. Why the descrepancy if murder is murder.

I know this is not exactly the topic (killing one year olds) but I am useing the question to try to point out a descrepancy in your logic, as I was with the de-crimenlizing rape and killing homeless questions you refused to answer.

 

[SeekingTruth]

Here's a tip for you Bir. I did not say you supported abortion. I do state, based on your replies wherein you consistently refuse to take a stand against abortion that you do not oppose it. Based on the following, you would not publicly oppose rape.

You say on February 24, 2006 11:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DeeJay:
BinR

Should we leagalize everything then. What about people who disagree with me about child abuse, or drug use, or rape, being wrong.

Should we leagalize rape, after all it will be the rapest that answers for his actions not you or me?

Sound reasonable?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, no problem: if that is what you want, then it's fine by me. Are you planning on adopting any of those children?

BiR

Again, you do not state that you would oppose such an act legalizing rape. On Feb 26, you post the following:

Two things:
1. Nobody is disagreeing with the statement that abortion is murder. I have stated in other forums that the same reason I am pro-life is why I am against the death penalty.
2. There are many Americans who are not Christians and do not acknowledge our God. They alone must give account for their actions.

Yes, they alone will give account for their actions. What about your lack of action in trying to prevent that abortion. Should Christians speak out against abortion, murder, rape, incest and any of the manifold sins we see around us today. Or should we simply say, "Well they must answer for their sins, no problem of mine"?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

No decision is still a decision

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
Blackhawk and PastorMark, Amen and Amen.

It is sad to see professing Christians state, as BiR has done at least indirectly, that since only those who commit an act ansswer to it, then everything should be legal. I believe the Bible clearly teaches that it is the responsibility of the believer to stand for the right vigorously and vocally. BiR seems to object to that.

Many Christians who call themselves liberals in a political sense, will not take a firm stance against abortion.

Many of those that do openly oppose abortion will support candidates for political office that openly support abortion.

Makes one wonder.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
institute strict laws against sexual relations outside of marriage

No way. I have no desire to see a Taliban-like "Christian theocracy" set up in the United States. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree and it is further totally unnecessary.

People must take responsibility for themselves and their actions. When a couple engage in sex then there are very few that don't understand that an unwanted pregnancy is a possibility. By exercising this freedom, they incur the complete and TOTAL responsibility for the outcome.

Those who had nothing to do with the decision should not be expected to cover any part of the medical expenses for STD's or unwanted pregnancies. We should not be expected to pick up the tab for the child unless we do so in individual charity. Those who made the "free", constitutionally protected choice should bear the responsibility.

If a child is conceived then states should be allowed to create laws concerning the father's responsibility... or not. (There was a time when women were the "gate keepers" for their bodies but liberals weren't satisfied with that. Much better to have the situation we have now, huh?)

BUT- in no case, should an innocent third party be killed so that another can escape the consequences of having exercised a freedom. There is no other case when we would accept this logic.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
It is sad to see professing Christians state, as BiR has done at least indirectly, that since only those who commit an act ansswer to it, then everything should be legal. I believe the Bible clearly teaches that it is the responsibility of the believer to stand for the right vigorously and vocally. BiR seems to object to that.

Here's a tip: if you must qualify something as being said "indirectly," then it wasn't said. Baptist in Richmond is not accountable for the actions of others. If BiR IS accountable, then please provide the Scriptural justification for such a belief.</font>[/QUOTE] If Baptist in Richmond votes for politicians knowing that they will do everything in their power to keep abortion legal whereas a vote against that person would facilitate legal protection for that child... then BiR is indeed responsible for helping keep abortion legal and for the abortions that take place because it is legal.

You may not like it but you cannot divorce yourself from the responsibility of your vote.

I do not support abortion

Yes you do. Each time you vote for a pro-abortion politician, you vote to keep abortion legal. You do so knowing full well that abortions will take place due to your vote.

Whether it is something you like to admit or not, you give sanction to abortion by voting for pro-abortion politicians.

 

[freedom's cause]

we should train our young people to become politically involved at an early age run for offices and take our freedoms seriously if we don't someone or thing will

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by SeekingTruth:
Here's a tip for you Bir. I did not say you supported abortion. I do state, based on your replies wherein you consistently refuse to take a stand against abortion that you do not oppose it. Based on the following, you would not publicly oppose rape.

That is where you are wholly and completely wrong. Here is another good tip for you: if something is not SPECIFICALLY said, it is fallacious to simply assume that the statement was implied, or that the person somehow has made some sort of de facto endorsement. This quote above very clearly demonstrates it.

1. Your claim that I "refuse to take a stand against abortion" is dangerously presumptive on your part. I have made it clear that I am pro-life, regardless of whether you choose to acknowledge that fact. The fact that I simply do not share the passion about this topic exhibited by some on the board is not "refusing to take a stand."
2. Your claim that I "would not publicly oppose rape" is presumptive to the point of being egregious. I did not introduce the topic of rape into the discussion, nor did I make any statements that would indicate this position you have erroneously attributed to me. That is intellectual dishonesty.

You say on February 24, 2006 11:52 PM
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Originally posted by DeeJay:
BinR

Should we leagalize everything then. What about people who disagree with me about child abuse, or drug use, or rape, being wrong.

Should we leagalize rape, after all it will be the rapest that answers for his actions not you or me?

Sound reasonable?

Hey, no problem: if that is what you want, then it's fine by me. Are you planning on adopting any of those children?[emphasis yours]</font>[/QUOTE]I have amplified that statement, noting that I was addressing your apparent desire to see this law passed. This was in no way a comment about rape. As a matter of fact, I even expounded upon that statement, asking if dee jay planned on adopting any of those children. [It is right there in your response, as you have even reproduced the sentence for me.]

Again, you do not state that you would oppose such an act legalizing rape. On Feb 26, you post the following:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Two things:
1. Nobody is disagreeing with the statement that abortion is murder. I have stated in other forums that the same reason I am pro-life is why I am against the death penalty.
2. There are many Americans who are not Christians and do not acknowledge our God. They alone must give account for their actions.

</font>[/QUOTE]This of course is intellectual dishonesty. You have reproduced my comments for me again. Although it is glaringly obvious, notice that I did not address rape in either point. To suggest that I somehow did not "state that would not oppose such an act legalizing rape" is abject fatuity, nothing more. I didn't address the topic of rape at all in this reply. I didn't discuss it at all. In other words, I did not address the topic of rape in either reply that you have so graciously reproduced in this reply to me.

Yes, they alone will give account for their actions. What about your lack of action in trying to prevent that abortion. Should Christians speak out against abortion, murder, rape, incest and any of the manifold sins we see around us today. Or should we simply say, "Well they must answer for their sins, no problem of mine"?

I couldn't help but notice that you introduced the topic of incest with this post. Could we please stick to the discussion at hand? I did not start this discussion to debate any of these topics.

Regards,
BiR

[ February 28, 2006, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: Baptist in Richmond ]