Thou Shalt Both Save Thyself

[Gf50]

1 Timothy
Chapter 4
16: Take heed unto thyself,
and unto the doctrine; continue in them:
for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself,
and them that hear thee.

 

[tyndale1946]

1 Timothy
Chapter 4
16: Take heed unto thyself,
and unto the doctrine; continue in them:
for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself,
and them that hear thee.

Saved from what and saved to what?... Brother Glen

 

[Gf50]

Saved from what and saved to what?... Brother Glen

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it;
and he that hateth his life in this world
shall keep it unto life eternal.

 

[tyndale1946]

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it;
and he that hateth his life in this world
shall keep it unto life eternal.

In regards to I Timothy 4:16... I disagree this is not talking about eternal life this is talking about doctrine... Continuing in sound doctrine and not in false doctrine... You save them from error and untruth and save yourself also... Why do you think it says take heed?... So you won't be tossed about by every wind of doctrine out there... Case in point when The Apostle Paul visited the Galatians he said Oh foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you?... During the time The Apostle Paul taught the Galatians the first time until this visit the doctrinal teaching that he taught they departed from and believed lies and fables... That is the truth I see!... Brother Glen

 

[Van]

One of the views often expressed is the idea that works contributes to salvation. But there are three aspects to salvation. First we have positional sanctification, where God puts us spiritually in Christ, and we are made alive together with Christ, born anew, and created for "good works."

Once we are a new creation, then the second aspect of our salvation is where we earn rewards by our works. Now if our works are useless, we still enter heaven, but as one escaping from a fire. OTOH, if we build on the foundation of Christ and our ministry produces eternal rewards, we will enter heaven "abundantly." For Timothy, this second aspect of salvation is in view, adding to the kingdom, and for those he helps bring to the foot of the cross, positional sanctification is in view.

1 Timothy 4:16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

 

[Internet Theologian]

One of the views often expressed is the idea that works contributes to salvation.

Yes. Some quote from Romans 2 as a pretext against Sola Fide, misapplying and misinterpreting it as well as James 2:14 to go against the doctrine salvation by faith, or, better yet, justification by faith, Romans 5:1.

There is generally an inconsistency in this type of hermeneutic though, and so they will use passages such as Luke 18:13 to show the simplicity of salvation based upon faith alone, but then later they are going against Sola Fide by quoting James and Romans 3.

Then there is the calling out of others who believe in evidence of conversion as preaching a works Gospel. At the same time these point to Romans 2 and James 2, using it against Sola Fide, yet are implying works as an contributor to salvation, all the while lamenting those whom they label as LS'ers who point to these works as, not contributors to salvation, but as evidence thereof.

Yes, their hermeneutic and doctrine is that amiss, inconsistent and that faulty.

But there are three aspects to salvation.

Cool...

First we have positional sanctification,

I am wondering why you've gone from salvation to sanctification? I say this because what you are describing is sanctification, theologically speaking, not necessarily the moment of salvation, but how this salvation evidences itself.

But that is the point of Hebrews 12:14, that those who are not in this pursuit of 'the holiness' have not experienced salvation. Therefore there is this aspect of sanctification being a necessity, and that without it (which implies evidence of conversion) there is no salvation at work in the professing believer.

where God puts us spiritually in Christ, and we are made alive together with Christ, born anew, and created for "good works."

Yes, we are, in Him, created to do good works.

Once we are a new creation, then the second aspect of our salvation is where we earn rewards by our works. Now if our works are useless, we still enter heaven, but as one escaping from a fire. OTOH, if we build on the foundation of Christ and our ministry produces eternal rewards, we will enter heaven "abundantly." For Timothy, this second aspect of salvation is in view, adding to the kingdom, and for those he helps bring to the foot of the cross, positional sanctification is in view.

The passage here is dealing with things that are descriptive of salvation, not prescriptive. That's the point I do believe of Paul as we know Scripture does not teach works salvation.

Wondering here what your third aspect of salvation would be.

1 Timothy 4:16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

 

[Van]

The three aspects, and this view is not mine, but held by many commentators, are (1) positional sanctification, being set apart in Christ, (2) progressive sanctification where we potentially earn rewards as we strive to become more Christ-like and serve Him. The third is "Ultimate sanctification" where we are resurrected in glorified bodies at Christ's second coming.

Here is a blurb from the internet:
The Three Phases (Tenses) of Salvation
Salvation in Christ, which begins in eternity past according to the predetermined plan of God and extends into the eternal future, has three observable phases in the Bible. Understanding this truth can relieve a lot of tension from the standpoint of security and enable the believer to relax in the Lord and His grace while simultaneously moving forward in spiritual growth.

Phase I. This is the past tense of salvation—saved from sin’s penalty. Several passages of Scripture speak of salvation as wholly past, or as accomplished and completed for the one who has believed in the person and work of Jesus Christ. This aspect views the believer as delivered once and for all from sin’s penalty and spiritual death (Luke 7:50; 1 Cor. 1:18; 2 Cor. 2:15; Eph. 2:5, 8; Tit. 3:5; Heb. 7:25; 2 Tim. 1:9). So complete and perfect is this work of God in Christ that the believer is declared permanently saved and safe forever (John 5:24; 10:28, 29; Rom. 8:1, 37-39; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).

Phase II. This is the present tense of salvation and has to do with present deliverance over the reigning power of sin or the carnal nature’s power in the lives of believers (Rom. 6:1-23; 8:2; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 2:19-20; 5:1-26; Phil. 1:19; 2:12-13; 2 Thess. 2:13). This phase of salvation in Christ is accomplished through the ministry of the indwelling Spirit, but it is based on the work of Christ and the believer’s union and co-identification with Christ in that work.

Phase III. This is the future tense of salvation which refers to the future deliverance all believers in Christ will experience through a glorified resurrected body. It contemplates that, though once and for all saved from the penalty of sin and while now being delivered from the power of sin, the believer in Christ will yet be saved into full conformity to Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:29; 13:11; 1 Pet. 1:5; 1 John 3:2). This recognizes and shows that the Christian in his experience never becomes perfect in this life (Phil. 3:12-14). Full conformity to the character of Christ, experientially speaking, awaits ultimate glorification. However, the fact that some aspects of salvation for the one who believes are yet to be accomplished in no way implies that there is ground for doubt as to the outcome of eternal salvation because all three phases are dependent upon the merit and the work of God in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.3

 

[Gf50]

In regards to I Timothy 4:16... I disagree this is not talking about eternal life this is talking about doctrine... Continuing in sound doctrine and not in false doctrine... You save them from error and untruth and save yourself also... Why do you think it says take heed?... So you won't be tossed about by every wind of doctrine out there... Case in point when The Apostle Paul visited the Galatians he said Oh foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you?... During the time The Apostle Paul taught the Galatians the first time until this visit the doctrinal teaching that he taught they departed from and believed lies and fables... That is the truth I see!... Brother Glen

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me,
teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Gf50]

John 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said,
My doctrine is not mine,
but his that sent me.

 

[Gf50]

John 7:17
If any man will do his will,
he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it be of God, or whether
I speak of myself.

 

[Gf50]

The three aspects, and this view is not mine, but held by many commentators, are (1) positional sanctification, being set apart in Christ, (2) progressive sanctification where we potentially earn rewards as we strive to become more Christ-like and serve Him. The third is "Ultimate sanctification" where we are resurrected in glorified bodies at Christ's second coming.

Here is a blurb from the internet:
The Three Phases (Tenses) of Salvation
Salvation in Christ, which begins in eternity past according to the predetermined plan of God and extends into the eternal future, has three observable phases in the Bible. Understanding this truth can relieve a lot of tension from the standpoint of security and enable the believer to relax in the Lord and His grace while simultaneously moving forward in spiritual growth.

Phase I. This is the past tense of salvation—saved from sin’s penalty. Several passages of Scripture speak of salvation as wholly past, or as accomplished and completed for the one who has believed in the person and work of Jesus Christ. This aspect views the believer as delivered once and for all from sin’s penalty and spiritual death (Luke 7:50; 1 Cor. 1:18; 2 Cor. 2:15; Eph. 2:5, 8; Tit. 3:5; Heb. 7:25; 2 Tim. 1:9). So complete and perfect is this work of God in Christ that the believer is declared permanently saved and safe forever (John 5:24; 10:28, 29; Rom. 8:1, 37-39; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).

Phase II. This is the present tense of salvation and has to do with present deliverance over the reigning power of sin or the carnal nature’s power in the lives of believers (Rom. 6:1-23; 8:2; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 2:19-20; 5:1-26; Phil. 1:19; 2:12-13; 2 Thess. 2:13). This phase of salvation in Christ is accomplished through the ministry of the indwelling Spirit, but it is based on the work of Christ and the believer’s union and co-identification with Christ in that work.

Phase III. This is the future tense of salvation which refers to the future deliverance all believers in Christ will experience through a glorified resurrected body. It contemplates that, though once and for all saved from the penalty of sin and while now being delivered from the power of sin, the believer in Christ will yet be saved into full conformity to Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:29; 13:11; 1 Pet. 1:5; 1 John 3:2). This recognizes and shows that the Christian in his experience never becomes perfect in this life (Phil. 3:12-14). Full conformity to the character of Christ, experientially speaking, awaits ultimate glorification. However, the fact that some aspects of salvation for the one who believes are yet to be accomplished in no way implies that there is ground for doubt as to the outcome of eternal salvation because all three phases are dependent upon the merit and the work of God in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.3

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,
that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Gf50]

In regards to I Timothy 4:16... I disagree this is not talking about eternal life this is talking about doctrine...

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[Revmitchell]

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth,
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
he hath both the Father and the Son.

Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

 

[Gf50]

Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

You are a pastor, so tell me, how do you tell the two apart
in your own congregation so you can
Titus 1:13
This witness is true.
Wherefore rebuke them sharply,
that they may be sound in the faith;

 

[Revmitchell]

You are a pastor, so tell me, how do you tell the two apart
in your own congregation so you can
Titus 1:13
This witness is true.
Wherefore rebuke them sharply,
that they may be sound in the faith;

Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

 

[Gf50]

Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

You are a pastor, so tell me, how do you tell the two apart
in your own congregation so you can
Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite,
first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote
out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Internet Theologian]

The three aspects, and this view is not mine, but held by many commentators, are (1) positional sanctification, being set apart in Christ, (2) progressive sanctification where we potentially earn rewards as we strive to become more Christ-like and serve Him. The third is "Ultimate sanctification" where we are resurrected in glorified bodies at Christ's second coming.

Here is a blurb from the internet:
The Three Phases (Tenses) of Salvation
Salvation in Christ, which begins in eternity past according to the predetermined plan of God and extends into the eternal future, has three observable phases in the Bible. Understanding this truth can relieve a lot of tension from the standpoint of security and enable the believer to relax in the Lord and His grace while simultaneously moving forward in spiritual growth.

Phase I. This is the past tense of salvation—saved from sin’s penalty. Several passages of Scripture speak of salvation as wholly past, or as accomplished and completed for the one who has believed in the person and work of Jesus Christ. This aspect views the believer as delivered once and for all from sin’s penalty and spiritual death (Luke 7:50; 1 Cor. 1:18; 2 Cor. 2:15; Eph. 2:5, 8; Tit. 3:5; Heb. 7:25; 2 Tim. 1:9). So complete and perfect is this work of God in Christ that the believer is declared permanently saved and safe forever (John 5:24; 10:28, 29; Rom. 8:1, 37-39; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).

Phase II. This is the present tense of salvation and has to do with present deliverance over the reigning power of sin or the carnal nature’s power in the lives of believers (Rom. 6:1-23; 8:2; 2 Cor. 3:18; Gal. 2:19-20; 5:1-26; Phil. 1:19; 2:12-13; 2 Thess. 2:13). This phase of salvation in Christ is accomplished through the ministry of the indwelling Spirit, but it is based on the work of Christ and the believer’s union and co-identification with Christ in that work.

Phase III. This is the future tense of salvation which refers to the future deliverance all believers in Christ will experience through a glorified resurrected body. It contemplates that, though once and for all saved from the penalty of sin and while now being delivered from the power of sin, the believer in Christ will yet be saved into full conformity to Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:29; 13:11; 1 Pet. 1:5; 1 John 3:2). This recognizes and shows that the Christian in his experience never becomes perfect in this life (Phil. 3:12-14). Full conformity to the character of Christ, experientially speaking, awaits ultimate glorification. However, the fact that some aspects of salvation for the one who believes are yet to be accomplished in no way implies that there is ground for doubt as to the outcome of eternal salvation because all three phases are dependent upon the merit and the work of God in His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.3

Thanks! BTW the FGT camp throws out the necessity of 'PHASE II'.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.