Thoughts on a Hamas led Palestine ?

Ken,

These are great words. I will put my thumbs up to it when we see some actual action put to them.

I think I would talk to both parties directly and tell them there will be no negotiations and there will be no aid without concrete action on their part to stop terror and move toward peace.

Very simple to me:

1. Hamas ran as the party of social reform and a better life when it comes to getting jobs and being financially stable. They are not going to meet those goals without the help of the west.

2. Reciprocity will bring terror to its knees and give hope for future peace and for those within their nation (when there is a two state solution) to have economic stability, peace with their neighbors, and political stability in their nation. If they want it, they can choose to have it.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Ever heard of the bombing of the King David Hotel set up by Gurion and Begin, Bunyon? I know that you don't consider a hotel to be military target or government target. )------------------

Yes I have Ken my good friend. Did you know the wing they bombed was British Military Headquarters???

 

Yes.

 

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/King_David.html

So it does not equate to numerous suicide bombers on buses full of innocent civilians. And their is no moral struggle with the suicide bomber as their was with the Jews and no warnings.

 

Never said there was. There are degrees to terrorism.

Since this board will be shutting down for a while in just a little bit, I want to say bye-bye to everyone - and hope to see ya'll when the Baptist Board is up and running again. I hope it is soon.

Have a good weekend and may God bless you all.

 

Looks to me as if Bunyon has a point here. There are other extremists today in Israel, however, most notably the Kahanist movement.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Have not heard of them. But if they suicide bomb buses of men, women and Children, I denounce them also.

 

Never said there was. There are degrees to terrorism. </font>[/QUOTE]How do you define terrorism? Are you saying that attacking a military target during a time of war is an act of terror? Come on, Ken. There are other legitimate acts of terror that could be attributed to Israelis if you are trying to be fair and balanced in your criticism... you don't have to resort to calling legitimate military operations terrorism. One could point to the Palestinian youths who had to be protected by IDF forces last year when Israelis began stoning them. I think you could even point to the assassination of PM Rabin. Why do you want to find a moral equivalence anyways? Even with these acts of terror committed by a small minority of Israeli nuts, you still don't have an Israeli government sitting on the sidelines cheering them on.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Terrorist acts attributed to the Kahanists

Joseph Botwinick

 

"Israeli authorities have foiled Machteret's plans to blow up the al-Aqsa Mosque."------------------------------------------------------------

I denounce them, but I think this is the telling difference here.

 

I agree.

Joseph Botwinick

 

There is no moral equivalent. Period.

 

Bunyon,

Did you know the wing they bombed was British Military Headquarters???

I had never heard that. Thanks for the info.


JB,

Hamas ran as the party of social reform and a better life when it comes to getting jobs and being financially stable. They are not going to meet those goals without the help of the west.

Do you support giving this help? I am tired of the West kissing up to Palestinian terrorists only to be rewarded with another Israeli wedding being bombed.


If I don't get back into BB tonight, I hope all have a wonderful weekend. Will greatly miss corresponding with my favorites (BiR, KenH, JB, Bunyon, Daisy, LE, poncho, Major B, Scott J, Johnv, JG, C4K, Galatian--I hope I didn't leave anyone out--et al). Looking forward to "seeing" y'all again on Sunday.

 

I support reciprocity for a two state solution. I support cutting all aid to the Palestinian Government until it takes substantive action (not merely talking a lot of hollow empty words) to reform itself and stop the terror. I am still pretty much with my neo-con buddy, Sharansky, when I state that the only way to achieve peace is for there to be reciprocity and accountability.


If I don't get back into BB tonight, I hope all have a wonderful weekend. Will greatly miss corresponding with my favorites (BiR, KenH, JB, Bunyon, Daisy, LE, poncho, et al). Looking forward to "seeing" y'all again on Sunday. [/QUOTE]

As always, I have enjoyed the great conversation with you and most of the people on your above list.

I probably will not be on as much as I would like for the month of February. My life is about to go into a tailspin of being extremely busy for the whole month. I hope I can get on every now and then. Till then, may God Bless you and your family.

Joseph Botwinick

 

JB,

We agree. To me, substantive action includes trying, convicting, and executing terrorists. Throwing them in jail for a few weeks won't cut it.

Due to my poor memory, I had to go back in embarrassedly--is that a word?--and add several to my list, but you're all folks I greatly enjoy spending time with.

 

BTW I was not intending to equate Jewish terrorism against the British with the Suicide bombings of Hamas against children. I do think there are dirty hands on both sides (BUT THAT IS TRUE IN ANY WAR). I am a strong supporter of the Nation of Israel and consider them an ally yet at the same time I hope for a peaceful Palestian State (Not sure if that is possible).

BTW I agree with you Joseph.

 

Democracy only works if the majority of the people are moral. So it doesn't make much sense to spend hundreds of billions of dollars for other countries to set up their own flavor of Koranic rule.

My calculations are that we've already spent at least $55,000 per resident of Iraq (1 trillion dollars / 18 million people). That's the same as putting $3300 dollars in the hands of every American man, woman, child, baby.