Magnetic Poles
New Member
Please share your thoughts about the Unitarian-Universalist Church. What is your experience with them? And please keep it civil. :thumbsup:
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Thoughts on the UU
- Thread starter Magnetic Poles
- Start date
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
Please share your thoughts about the Unitarian-Universalist Church. What is your experience with them? And please keep it civil. :thumbsup:
Thanks.
My thoughts on them are that they are heretics at the best, atheists at the worst. I haven't really had much personal experience with them, but my Sunday school teacher from back when I was in high school lived on the same street as a UU minister. He said the minister was a nice person and his daughter would take care of the minister's cat if the minister was out of town.
Please share your thoughts about the Unitarian-Universalist Church. What is your experience with them? And please keep it civil. :thumbsup:
Thanks.
The U.U. church is very weak in my area. Too many liberal churches competing with them. They for the most part rent buildings from other liberal churches and have not experienced much growth.
When you have churches like the United Church of Christ (Disciples of Christ), Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church, American Baptist, who deny the diety of Christ, refer to the Atonement as parental child abuse, deny hell and claim that all roads lead to heaven, who needs the U.U.
BTW, the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church recently stated that Jesus Christ is A way, a truth and a light. And that we just can't keep God in such a small box by making Him/Her the only way to salvation.
Who need Unitarianism when you have so many Baptist, Presby's, Episcopalians, UCC saying the same thing?
FR7 Baptist
Active Member
Who need Unitarianism when you have so many Baptist, Presby's, Episcopalians, UCC saying the same thing?
That's a good point but let's not mark all mainline Protestants as heretical. I first came to faith in Christ in a United Methodist church. I visited an Episcopal church last year and didn't see anything outside Nicene orthodoxy. They had a beautiful liturgy (as do the Catholics, BTW.) With that said, some parts of these denominations do have "issues" to put it mildly.
Darron Steele
New Member
First, you are mistaken on one point: in reality, the United Church of Christ and the Disciples of Christ are separate denominations. Our denominational agencies are in something called an "ecumenical partnership."The U.U. church is very weak in my area. Too many liberal churches competing with them. They for the most part rent buildings from other liberal churches and have not experienced much growth.
When you have churches like the United Church of Christ (Disciples of Christ), Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church, American Baptist, who deny the diety of Christ, refer to the Atonement as parental child abuse, deny hell and claim that all roads lead to heaven, who needs the U.U.
...
Who need Unitarianism when you have so many Baptist, Presby's, Episcopalians, UCC saying the same thing?
Second, just because some liberal nut in some denominational headquarters makes a statement does not mean the person in the pew buys it -- granted that s/he even knows it was made.
I can attest to the fact that UMC congregations and Disciples congregations are commonly filled with Christians. I am unaware of any American Baptist denominational statement that is compatible with distinctive Unitarian Universalist notions, but I know American Baptist congregations are full of Christians. The only reason I am not saying anything about the United Church of Christ, Presbyterians, Episcopalians is because I have not had enough experience with them, but I figure the situation is similar to the UMC and Disciples.
Denominational loons who make ultra-liberal, faith-denying statements in their offices generally do not make much effort to let the congregations find out that they did so. There is a plurality of reasons why this would be so, most obviously:
a) they do not care about the congregations,
b) they know that if the common churchgoers found out, it be disadvantageous to the loons.
Think about it: if you were a person set on advancing an agenda incompatible with one befitting Christians, but the existence of your post came depended upon congregations filled with Christians, would you be proactive in letting them know of your activities? Would you be pressing congregation members to go along with it? Of course not and of course not.
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First, you are mistaken on one point: in reality, the United Church of Christ and the Disciples of Christ are separate denominations. Our denominational agencies are in something called an "ecumenical partnership."
Second, just because some liberal nut in some denominational headquarters makes a statement does not mean the person in the pew buys it -- granted that s/he even knows it was made.
I can attest to the fact that UMC congregations and Disciples congregations are commonly filled with Christians. I am unaware of any American Baptist denominational statement that is compatible with distinctive Unitarian Universalist notions, but I know American Baptist congregations are full of Christians. The only reason I am not saying anything about the United Church of Christ, Presbyterians, Episcopalians is because I have not had enough experience with them, but I figure the situation is similar to the UMC and Disciples.
Denominational loons who make ultra-liberal, faith-denying statements in their offices generally do not make much effort to let the congregations find out that they did so. There is a plurality of reasons why this would be so, most obviously:
a) they do not care about the congregations,
b) they know that if the common churchgoers found out, it be disadvantageous to the loons.
Think about it: if you were a person set on advancing an agenda incompatible with one befitting Christians, but the existence of your post came depended upon congregations filled with Christians, would you be proactive in letting them know of your activities? Would you be pressing congregation members to go along with it? Of course not and of course not.
What is interesting is that the denominations you have listed have elected 'loon's as their leadership. Look at the Episcopal Church, Disciples of Christ, ELCA, Presbyterians, etc. Are they being removed for their heretical positions, absolutely not. In fact the ELCA, and Episcopal churches have condoned their positions. Bishop Spong is praised for his 'atheistic' theology.
The majority of bible believing Episcopalians have left the Episcopal Church for Anglican Province of America, the Catholic Church (Bishop Bennison of the Diocese of Rio Grand just became Catholic) or the Orthodox Church. ELCA churches are leaving for other Lutheran bible-believing bodies as we speak.
I take issue that these churches are 'filled' with Christians. Have you visited one of these liberal Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Disciples, Presbyterian, etc. churches lately? In a church built to house 400 or more I recently visited (Reformed Church of America) I was barely able to find 50 people (who weren't even sitting together). No one sang the beautiful hymns played by an extraordinary organist. The pastor kept quoting passages from Matthew Foxxes 'The Coming of the Cosmic Christ' What a treat for Jesus!
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Good discussion folks, but let's keep this thread on the UU. Thanks.
Darron Steele
New Member
Hmmm... read my profile.I take issue that these churches are 'filled' with Christians...Have you visited one of these liberal Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Disciples, Presbyterian, etc. churches lately? ...
There is a congregation listed there; what denomination is it?
In denominations with liberal reputations, there are the denominational agencies and then there are the congregations. Like it or not, they are different things.
You evidently think I have not been in a congregation of any of these denominations, despite the fact that any initiative to find out would show you otherwise.
Such lack of initiative to get accurate information would explain why you evidently do not know what you are talking about.
Finally, if you do not want to discuss the Unitarian Universalists, but want to revile any church group you can -- besides the Catholic one, of course -- I wish you would shut up. I urge you to consider the Decree on Ecumenicism that came from Vatican II, which in chapter 2 section 11 urges that Catholics "searching together with separated brethren into the divine mysteries, should act with love for truth, with charity, and with humility."*
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*In Abbott, The Documents of Vatican II. New York: Corpus Books, 1966 page 354.
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Hmmm... read my profile.
There is a congregation listed there; what denomination is it?
In denominations with liberal reputations, there are the denominational agencies and then there are the congregations. Like it or not, they are different things.
You evidently think I have not been in a congregation of any of these denominations, despite the fact that any initiative to find out would show you otherwise.
Such lack of initiative to get accurate information would explain why you evidently do not know what you are talking about.
Finally, if you do not want to discuss the Unitarian Universalists, but want to revile any church group you can -- besides the Catholic one, of course -- I wish you would shut up.
Darron: These congregations, for the most part, elect their leaderships. Case in point: The Episcopal Church. The Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church IS a unitarian/universalist. She denies the very basic tenets of the Christian faith. The Episcopal Church did not begin as a heretical church but the majority of the House of Bishops would now be classified as embracing universalism. When a resolution was brought to the General Convention floor to affirm that 'Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and that NO one comes to the Father but by Him' the resolution was SOUNDLY defeated. Did you know that??
I am discussing Unitarian/Universalism. Bishop Spong embraces it, Mathew Fox embraces it, countless other 'theologians' in all seminaries outside the UU embrace it. I suspect every theologian at Union Theological Seminary in NYC embraces it. You might want to keep an eye on the theologians teaching in your own denominational seminary as it tends to creep in and infect just about all the so called 'mainline' churches. Look what happened to the American Baptist Church, Mennonite Church, Disciples of Christ, Reformed Church in America, ELCA, etc.
Oh, and the Catholic Church has it's share of LOONs too! We have a system where they (like Mathew Fox, who was welcomed into the Episcopal Church with open arms) can be silenced.
The loonies are always at the top because no sane person would take the job. The most frightening verse in the NT is about Christians judging angels. Anyone on this list want to judge angels? maybe you should be a Mormon.
UU - what baffles me is why they bother to go to church. What is their purpose?
UU - what baffles me is why they bother to go to church. What is their purpose?
Joseph M. Smith
New Member
The OP was to ask about our own experiences with the UU's. I have a story.
My organist's wife died; she was a member of a UU church in the city, and so of course a number of us Baptists attended to support him in his grief. The service contained music, poetry, readings, etc., but we noticed a member of the deceased's family whispering in the ear of the pastor. He stood and announced that the family wanted a reading from the Bible too!! Duh!
After the service I went up and introduced myself as the Baptist pastor with whom the deceased's husband worked, and the UU pastor said, "Oh, you should have identified yourself before the service. We would have had you say a word. We let ANYBODY speak here!"
Yeah, EVEN an evangelical!!
My organist's wife died; she was a member of a UU church in the city, and so of course a number of us Baptists attended to support him in his grief. The service contained music, poetry, readings, etc., but we noticed a member of the deceased's family whispering in the ear of the pastor. He stood and announced that the family wanted a reading from the Bible too!! Duh!
After the service I went up and introduced myself as the Baptist pastor with whom the deceased's husband worked, and the UU pastor said, "Oh, you should have identified yourself before the service. We would have had you say a word. We let ANYBODY speak here!"
Yeah, EVEN an evangelical!!
Darron Steele
New Member
Yeah, but for the most part the denominational agencies have the ballots already vetted so that the only candidates are loons or other loons.Darron: These congregations, for the most part, elect their leaderships.
...
Well many do not. In many denominations, the denominational agencies have protected themselves from direct accountability to the congregations.Oh, and the Catholic Church has it's share of LOONs too! We have a system where they (like Mathew Fox, who was welcomed into the Episcopal Church with open arms) can be silenced.
That does not mean that the congregations of those church groups should be denied as being "filled with Christians" which you have done.
Or do you want to say that those of us who do not want to be reviled as having Unitarian Universalist views should leave our congregations and go join the Catholic church group?
I have yet to see you say a single thing about the Unitarian Universalists. You have pretty much only taken this as an occasion to revile any church group you can -- except the Catholic church group, of course.
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Darron Steele
New Member
Here is information from the website of the place nearest my wife and I:
"Unitarian Universalism has no creed or dogma, so we are an open and diverse community of religious seekers. Members of our congregation hold a wide variety of beliefs and include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, those who believe in an earth-based spirituality, agnostics, atheists and more. We search for truth and a deeper meaning in life, and we covenant to support each other respectfully on our individual spiritual paths. For a deeper understanding of Unitarian Universalism, here are some links to explore:"
This comes from http://uucolumbusin.org/ .
It looks like one can be a Christian or a non-Christian and be in good standing at such a place. As such, it is not a Christian religious group, although it does not seem to be opposed to Christians being Christians.
"Unitarian Universalism has no creed or dogma, so we are an open and diverse community of religious seekers. Members of our congregation hold a wide variety of beliefs and include Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, those who believe in an earth-based spirituality, agnostics, atheists and more. We search for truth and a deeper meaning in life, and we covenant to support each other respectfully on our individual spiritual paths. For a deeper understanding of Unitarian Universalism, here are some links to explore:"
This comes from http://uucolumbusin.org/ .
It looks like one can be a Christian or a non-Christian and be in good standing at such a place. As such, it is not a Christian religious group, although it does not seem to be opposed to Christians being Christians.
I haven't heard you say anything about the 'Trinitarian Universalist'. Are you aware they exist? I lived in a town in upstate New York where the largest church (at one time) was a Trinitarian Universalist Church that had dwindled to a congregation of eight.
Personally, I don't think the average Joe sitting in the largely empty pews of these liberal institutions has a clue what the hierchy of their churches teach or believe. My point is, it is NOT the congregations themselves but the seminaries that have been infected with the liberal dribble that keep supplying these churches.
How long do you think that these churches who are under the leadership of pastors that deny the diety of Christ, refer to the Atonement as 'divine child abuse', preach that Jesus resurrection lives on in lives of his followers (no real resurrection), told that the Bible is inaccurate and not relevant to todays society, etc. before orthodox bible believing Christians find somewhere else to be fed the word of God. Actually, look around at all the empty pews in your liberal church. Look at the mass exodus in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and other ultra liberal churches.
'Yeah, but for the most part the denominational agencies have the ballots already vetted so that the only candidates are loons or other loons.'
HMMMM, how did that happen! Maybe the denomination is filled with LOONs!
I suspect these congregations you speak of 'filled with Christians' are going to start to look elsewhere for there spiritual well being! BTW, have you been to any 'fired eyed liberal churches' filled with Christians?
Oh, and I never said they should be joining Catholic church groups. That would be proselytizing wouldn't it?
Personally, I don't think the average Joe sitting in the largely empty pews of these liberal institutions has a clue what the hierchy of their churches teach or believe. My point is, it is NOT the congregations themselves but the seminaries that have been infected with the liberal dribble that keep supplying these churches.
How long do you think that these churches who are under the leadership of pastors that deny the diety of Christ, refer to the Atonement as 'divine child abuse', preach that Jesus resurrection lives on in lives of his followers (no real resurrection), told that the Bible is inaccurate and not relevant to todays society, etc. before orthodox bible believing Christians find somewhere else to be fed the word of God. Actually, look around at all the empty pews in your liberal church. Look at the mass exodus in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and other ultra liberal churches.
'Yeah, but for the most part the denominational agencies have the ballots already vetted so that the only candidates are loons or other loons.'
HMMMM, how did that happen! Maybe the denomination is filled with LOONs!
I suspect these congregations you speak of 'filled with Christians' are going to start to look elsewhere for there spiritual well being! BTW, have you been to any 'fired eyed liberal churches' filled with Christians?
Oh, and I never said they should be joining Catholic church groups. That would be proselytizing wouldn't it?
'How long do you think that these churches who are under the leadership of pastors that deny the diety of Christ, refer to the Atonement as 'divine child abuse', preach that Jesus resurrection lives on in lives of his followers (no real resurrection), told that the Bible is inaccurate and not relevant to todays society, etc. before orthodox bible believing Christians find somewhere else to be fed the word of God. Actually, look around at all the empty pews in your liberal church. Look at the mass exodus in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and other ultra liberal churches.'
Just for clarification, I wasn't speaking of just the UU who have held to these beliefs/non-beliefs. As far as I know, the only real debate in the UU was when they debated the inclusion of the 'Trinitarian Universalist' into their fold.
Interesting enough, I found this excerpt from Wikipedia 'Anabaptists, Moravian Brethren, and Christadelphians were just some of the churches who taught Universalism.
If you think that your denomination is exempt from these 'loonies' listen to my experience. A few years back I attended the LCMS General Convention in Houston, Texas. A resolution was brought to the floor (much like the one the Episcopal Church defeated) which was to affirm that Jesus was the only path to salvation. It passed! But only by a 93 percent vote. That leaves 7 percent of their voting delegation that believes there are other paths to God. I wonder what the vote would have been in the ELCA, Methodist, or Presbyterian where looney theologians seem to aboud.
It begins in the seminaries and (Christian) colleges. I attended a Southern Baptist College where evolution was taught.
Just for clarification, I wasn't speaking of just the UU who have held to these beliefs/non-beliefs. As far as I know, the only real debate in the UU was when they debated the inclusion of the 'Trinitarian Universalist' into their fold.
Interesting enough, I found this excerpt from Wikipedia 'Anabaptists, Moravian Brethren, and Christadelphians were just some of the churches who taught Universalism.
If you think that your denomination is exempt from these 'loonies' listen to my experience. A few years back I attended the LCMS General Convention in Houston, Texas. A resolution was brought to the floor (much like the one the Episcopal Church defeated) which was to affirm that Jesus was the only path to salvation. It passed! But only by a 93 percent vote. That leaves 7 percent of their voting delegation that believes there are other paths to God. I wonder what the vote would have been in the ELCA, Methodist, or Presbyterian where looney theologians seem to aboud.
It begins in the seminaries and (Christian) colleges. I attended a Southern Baptist College where evolution was taught.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Interesting comments and experiences. I lines up with what I had thought. That is, UU churches are less of a place of worship, than a place for community and fellowship for people who are not part of a New Testament church. However, it looks like no firm theology or creeds are part of it.
From those that I've spoken to who attend a UU (mostly online), they have no creeds, no beliefs, no statement of faith other than "everything is good" pretty much. Anything goes except if you decide that what you believe is true - then you have a problem. You can worship a rock and be fine. Worship a "goddess"? Wonderful. Worship Jehovah God of the Bible and believe it? Well, you're narrow minded and bigoted. *rolling eyes big time*
Interesting comments and experiences. I lines up with what I had thought. That is, UU churches are less of a place of worship, than a place for community and fellowship for people who are not part of a New Testament church. However, it looks like no firm theology or creeds are part of it.
Several years ago I had a friend whose father was in the Unitarian church. One day we were all gathered together for a meal and her father asked the blessing of father and mother god. That was enough for me to know it is heresy.
Yeah, just about anything goes by way of belief system in the UU. A few years back a Trinitarian Universalist church offered a Continuing Anglican Church (left the Episcopal Church) the use of their building. It was a church built to house 400 and was once (over 100 year ago) filled with people. Now they were down to about eight or ten attending and couldn't pay their heating bill. Our congregation was offered the building as long as we kept up the maintenance and allowed them to meet once a week on Sunday afternoon.
The building was interesting, trinitarian symbols EVERYWHERE. Pulpit, Baptismal (wonder what they need that for if they were universalist), even the organ had huge trinitarian symbols engraved in mahogany. Every pew had trinitarian symbols on the ends. I wondered why the emphasis on the trinity when whether you believed in it or not didn't effect your ultimate eternal outcome. I asked one of them and they said, 'oh, heaven, if it exist at all is probably completely different than what those who built this church conceived it to be'. Progressive revelation? I guess.
The building was interesting, trinitarian symbols EVERYWHERE. Pulpit, Baptismal (wonder what they need that for if they were universalist), even the organ had huge trinitarian symbols engraved in mahogany. Every pew had trinitarian symbols on the ends. I wondered why the emphasis on the trinity when whether you believed in it or not didn't effect your ultimate eternal outcome. I asked one of them and they said, 'oh, heaven, if it exist at all is probably completely different than what those who built this church conceived it to be'. Progressive revelation? I guess.
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