Three Cheers for Australia

Marcia, do you really think that previous groups (not individuals) assimilated in a single generation? Neither of my great-grandmothers spoke English. When I was growing up, many of my friends had grandmothers who only spoke Chinese, Italian or Greek.

Even the Irish, who already had the English language forced upon them, didn't assimilate instantly. Even they changed the culture adding their own special imprint.

If the store belongs to you, you can speak whatever language you chose - that's capitalism. Yes, there are Chinatowns, little Italies, little Indias in a great many countries where the immigrant language is spoken in immigrant-run shops. In most countries, educated people speak more than one language.

What language do the majority of the customers speak? I've been to France, Italy and Germany - most the shopkeepers spoke at least a bit of English. In France, after I attempted French, most people laughed and spoke in English. I have no talent for languages myself & I am sympathetic towards others like me.

Why do Americans so often revel in their ignorance of other cultures and other languages?

What is the "American" culture? Do Southerners accept Yankees as themselves? Does one region think another talks funny (wrong)? Do kids in Seattle listen to the same music as those in Memphis or Detroit? Mormons are uniquely American yet how many of you all would vote for one or for one married to one?

 

Daisy,

One great difference between your great-grandmother's generation of immigrants and today is that our government is making it easier and easier to remain affixed to the native language. Alabama offers drivers' license exams in a dozen languages: Arabic, Chinese, Farsi (Persian), French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese.

I have a problem with that. I think the motivation to become "Americanized" (and I think the #1 issue is language) has been diminished by our own government.

 

My great-grandmother's generation didn't drive much as there weren't too many cars at that time (they were adults before the first one rolled off the assembly-line). When did driver's licenses become mandatory in Texas for all drivers? I doubt my great-grandmothers ever had one. My grandmothers did, but they were both born here - one was a teacher.

The tests are presented in languages the test-takers understand, for the practical reason that we want drivers to be licensed rather than unlicensed.

I don't think so - immigrants' first generation children are "known" to be good students, although by the third, Americanized generation, they become as indifferent as the majority culture.

 

I wouldnt have thought someone could twist that post around. You have succeeded to do just that. Congradualtions!

 

Daisy,

I don't want to hijack this into strictly a driving license issue, but IMO someone who can't read English has no business driving on our English-signed streets. They are a hazard to themselves and others.

But, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...(we seem to do that a lot?):thumbs:

 

I understand the point, but that is why the US went to international sign designs, so that even with different words, a stop sign is a red octagon, yield is a red-bordered triangle, etc.

I have driven in French and Spanish speaking countries, and can tell you it is easy. In Quebec, it is obvious that Sortie is Exit. In PR, Pare is Stop, while in Mexico Alto is Stop.

 

And were materials from the schools given to them in those languages? I doubt it. Here, they give all materials in 2 languages for practically everything. I had to call the phone co. 3 times to get them to stop sending me letters in Spanish (my last name is Spanish as well as Italian, but they ignore the Italian part). And I don't always see the younger generation learning English that well, either. They come home from school and spend time with family and friends who speak their languages. My grandfather was from Chile (and I don't think a U.S. citizen), so I'm not speaking from the view of someone who has a long background of ancestors in this country, at least on my father's side.

Daisy, that is not what I'm talking about! I'm talking about shopping at CVS (drugstore), Rite-Aid, Target, etc. I've had to give up asking for something in some cases in these stores. Also, I disagree that a store owned by someone who speaks a foreign language should have employees who don't know English when they are in this country.

In the stores I frequent, English.

And if people in France or Italy speak English for customers, why can't people here speak English for customers? I am not "reveling" in not speaking other languages. Didn't you read my post? I've traveled and lived abroad and I learned their languages when I did so -- German, French, Italian, and Spanish. I think people here have a perfect right to expect people in a store to understand things like, "Where is the soap?" Don't you??

Just ask people in Europe if there is an American culture. Yes, there is one.

 

This is what I'm afraid of, because I think this leads to conflict. We will have competition rather than assimilation and cooperation; separate enclaves rather than a mixed populace.

Around here, that is not true. Foreign language is required here in secondary school and in the community college. For myself, I had to have 3 yrs. of foreign language in high school (which was in MD), and 2 yrs. in college (I had more because I like languages). Not only that, but the range of languages offered is wider -- kids can now study Japanese, Chinese, and Arabic in some schools. Japanese is offered at the community college as well (maybe Arabic as well but I don't know about that).

I know all this -- I got straight A's in English from 7th through 12th grades (don't ask about my math and science grades! ) during which we studied some of the development of the English language, and I was a Lit major in college. I also read "Mother Tongue." I understand that English develops through taking on other words, but I don't see that as related to this topic. English assimilating words from other languages is not the same as the US becoming a multi-lingual country, which I think would be a disaster.

 

It is so sad to have someone denigrate a culture that others hold dear. It is also sad to realize that person lives in the same nation they cannot respect. Almost sounds as though that person does not respect diversity, doesn't it? Or, their diversity is selective?

 

Barbarian suggests:
Fortunately, Real Americans are a tolerant bunch so even bigots have a right to stay.

But I don't see why they would want to. There are plenty of coiuntries where people aren't allowed to be different.

Surely they wouild be more comfortable in one of them.


Barbarian observes
Nope. Real Americans, as I said earlier, are willing to tolerate even bigots.

(Rev. Mitchell snips context, Barbarian restores it)

 

Nope!
That's why Freedom must not be offered to those who don't deserve, because the Freedom might be endangered or undermined by those anti-freedom guys.

There is no unlimited freedom in the democracy.

Check this out:

http://www.rawa.org/tym_1.htm

http://www.rawa.org/gallery.html

Do you want to allow this freedom ?

http://www.rawa.org/handcut3.htm

Killing the wife because she spoke with a stranger, or cutting the legs of women should be allowed as freedom ?
Is the killing-spree to be allowed as freedom ? then you may not exist now!

Saudi Arabian freedom is not the one that should be allowed.

I know this well because I lived in Saudi Arabia for 2 years.

Canada is too much generous to the paganism, based on pluralism


Freedom, Freedom, Freedom, without the obedience to the Only God who is called Jehovah and revealed Himself in Jesus Christ, means nothing!

Allah must be condemned!

 

Freedom isn't offered. Certain liberties are inherently ours. Thomas Jefferson put it thusly:

"All men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
​

 

That means no one can destroy the life and liberty without the approval of God, the Only Creator who is called Jehovah, who revealed Himself in Yeshuah Ha-Masiach ( Jesus Christ).

These guys are destroying such freedom, liberty, and life!


http://www.rawa.org/handcut3.htm

Should this be allowed in US ?

Will you consent to such freedom to be performed against you ? Please answer by yes or no.

 

I don't buy the idea that we can have freedom only by taking it away from others.

That is the Taliban way, not the American way.

 

Strawman. When someone enters the United States, they are subject to the federal, state and local laws that govern the behavior of everyone else here. Sharia law is unconstitutional, and would require a constitutional amendment to become law here.

 

I am very convinced that US is founded upon the Christian Truth even though there are many intelligent challenges against it, denying the historical facts thesedays, especially by the Judicial systems and by news media.

As soon as anyone enters US, she or he must obey the law of US which has been grounded upon Christianity, not on Islam.
US law is sufficient to rule and govern all the matters inside US, without need of Sharia or Koran etc. If Muslim love to have it, let them go to the country where Sharia law dictates.

When I lived in Saudi Arabia, I noticed many funny things there, and when I pointed the problem with their system, they said : "Love Saudi or Leave Saudi"

Muslims often demand the unlimited freedom while they don't admit their own problems. Why don't they demand such unlimited freedom in their own country ? Let them implement and enjoy such freedom in their own country. Often they never admit the problems with Muslim countries while criticizing the minor problems or certain restrictions on their customs.

 

LE, I think your fears are unfounded. Immigration quotas would make that hard to do. Muslims are a very small minority in the U.S. that this would not happen. It is VERY hard for a constitutional amendment to become law, and the odds of 50 state legislatures, the House and the US Senate being muslim supermajority ain't gonna happen. As for taking up the sword, they do not have the numbers for that either. They would be crushed within a day.