Time and the Creation Account

[dad2]

Again, no one knows anything without faith. Our Christianity is built on a faith in handed down translated documents where others where the eye witnesses. Our blind faith to . . . .

False. I know the sun came up yesterday and all last week. No faith required. I do not know that time itself which we can't see anyhow, is the same in all the universe as it is here in this tiny area! THAT is only believed by faith.

 

[37818]

False. I know the sun came up yesterday and all last week. No faith required.

Oh, so what you just said is, you do not believe anything you think you know. You do not believe any experience.

 

[dad2]

Oh, so what you just said is, you do not believe anything you think you know. You do not believe any experience.

No. I said science doesn't know. So when you preach your belief based so called science religious dogmas act accordingly. I actually said I do know many things such as that the sun rose yesterday. What we do not know is what time in the far universe is like.

 

[37818]

No. I said science doesn't know. So when you preach your belief based so called science religious dogmas act accordingly. I actually said I do know many things such as that the sun rose yesterday. What we do not know is what time in the far universe is like.

You believe your version of your own religious dogma. You believe your own experiences. Most of what you believe is from the witness of others. Most of what anyone believes is based on the witness of others. Myself included.

 

[dad2]

You believe your version of your own religious dogma.

You believe your version of your own so called science religious dogma. We have seen that you cannot support your claims whatsoever with any evidence or fact.

You believe your own experiences. Most of what you believe is from the witness of others. Most of what anyone believes is based on the witness of others. Myself included.

There were many witnesses to Jesus and His life and Resurrection. There were witnesses to a lot of the stuff in the bible. There really were certain kingdoms in the world and cities etc. There are precisely 0 witnesses, none at all, not a one that have seen what time in the far universe is like. So called science is not just a belief but a dark and totally unsupported belief! Baseless. Worthless.

 

[37818]

You believe your version of your own so called science religious dogma. We have seen that you cannot support your claims whatsoever with any evidence or fact.

Only because you say so. You did not do the math and show the error. Nor how the correction for time dilation would have corrected things. It is purely your unbelief.

There were many witnesses to Jesus and His life and Resurrection. There were witnesses to a lot of the stuff in the bible. There really were certain kingdoms in the world and cities etc. There are precisely 0 witnesses, none at all, not a one that have seen what time in the far universe is like. So called science is not just a belief but a dark and totally unsupported belief! Baseless. Worthless.

Those witnesses are only found in the New Testament documents. What witness can you point to that you have yourself? What historical evidence either you or I can show supports the actual date for the New Testament crucifixion event?

 

[dad2]

Only because you say so. You did not do the math and show the error. Nor how the correction for time dilation would have corrected things.

You did not do the math showing that time is the same in all the universe. No one knows so there is no math either way. What you tried to do was look at the numbers here in the fishbowl of the area of this little solar system, and try to apply the math all over the universe by faith. That is not science, not fact, and not knowledge. Your error was not math, but fishbowl logic. A bit like a little fish in a fishbowl thinking that because there is water in the fishbowl, there must be water filling the universe! The fish runs the math for a few inches of the area it swims, and sure enough there is water there. He then extrapolates that few inches to all the universe using math. 'Let's see' says the fish, 'we have water of a certain density and with certain properties in this 2 inches here, so if we multiply that by 15 billion light years, that is a lot of water'.

Those witnesses are only found in the New Testament documents. What witness can you point to that you have yourself? What historical evidence either you or I can show supports the actual date for the New Testament crucifixion event?

Hey that beats NO witnesses! There are also millions of people that have experienced the results in their lives. Human test tubes. You have zero tests to show them wrong. You have zero support for your so called science claims.

 

[37818]

You did not do the math showing that time is the same in all the universe.

First off that your accusation. I never made that claim.

And it is because of time dilation, that time is not the same everywhere in the universe.

Hey that beats NO witnesses! There are also millions of people that have experienced the results in their lives. Human test tubes. You have zero tests to show them wrong. You have zero support for your so called science claims.

Explain what has this to do with the New Testament?

 

[dad2]

First off that your accusation. I never made that claim.

And it is because of time dilation, that time is not the same everywhere in the universe.

Since you cited ages and distances to stars and that is based on the assumption time is as we know it here, you certainly did! Time dilation is a feature of space and time HERE. Can you prove it also exists in deep space? That is all part of how time and space here work.

Explain what has this to do with the New Testament?

Did you not mention something like how that everything is just faith? Well, I pointed out that the faith of Christ has support. The faith that time in the far universe exists as we know it has NO support. How would that NOT have to do with Scripture?

 

[37818]

Since you cited ages and distances to stars and that is based on the assumption time is as we know it here, you certainly did! Time dilation is a feature of space and time HERE. Can you prove it also exists in deep space? That is all part of how time and space here work.

Elements being recognized in distant galaxies requires the same laws of physics that governs space time. Space time works the same way both here and there in the distant past. The time does not have to be the same rate (dialation difference) to work the same.

Did you not mention something like how that everything is just faith? Well, I pointed out that the faith of Christ has support. The faith that time in the far universe exists as we know it has NO support. How would that NOT have to do with Scripture?

If what is believed has no support it is fantasy. The New Testament makes historical claims. Now inspite of this, there are individuals that claim the evidence reduces the New Testament account to myth. We as Christians as a group cannot agree on the crucifixion date. There can be only one real date. The rest are fiction. And this is not a matter of salvation for those of us who are saved. But for those who find they cannot believe it is.

 

[dad2]

Elements being recognized in distant galaxies requires the same laws of physics that governs space time. Space time works the same way both here and there in the distant past. The time does not have to be the same rate (dialation difference) to work the same.

Can you explain how seeing hydrogen in a lens tells us what time is like?? That does not even make sense. It is ridiculous. You do realize time is not law?

If what is believed has no support it is fantasy. The New Testament makes historical claims. Now inspite of this, there are individuals that claim the evidence reduces the New Testament account to myth.

? Try not to voice pipe dreams as if there were some substance or truth to them.

We as Christians as a group cannot agree on the crucifixion date. There can be only one real date

Who said you were supposed to know? You do realize there are detailed prophesies involving years and days that, if the exact date were known, might reveal too much about the final period and when Jesus returns etc? Your not being privy to classified heavenly info does not take away from Scripture!

 

[37818]

Can you explain how seeing hydrogen in a lens tells us what time is like?? That does not even make sense. It is ridiculous. You do realize time is not law?

Wavelength and frequency their product with light is always a constant in the vacuum. The spectrum of an element remains unchanged except for a shift of it's spectrum pattern.

? Try not to voice pipe dreams as if there were some substance or truth to them.

By anyone believing what is not true.

Who said you were supposed to know? You do realize there are detailed prophesies involving years and days that, if the exact date were known, might reveal too much about the final period and when Jesus returns etc? Your not being privy to classified heavenly info does not take away from Scripture!

Different matters. I was speaking of Christians believing different dates for the crucifixion. Every proposed date could be wrong. But only one can be correct.

 

[dad2]

Wavelength and frequency their product with light is always a constant in the vacuum. The spectrum of an element remains unchanged except for a shift of it's spectrum pattern.

Ha, Gotcha! The frequency is only seen here. That means the time between waves observed! That is wholly dependant on time itself and what it is like. Since we see that here we see it in our time. Let me know if I need to break that down more for you.

By anyone believing what is not true.

Except you have to do more than say the words here, you need to demonstrate your claims as true. (rather than put down any who dare to disbelieve them at face value) I have to tell you this??

Different matters. I was speaking of Christians believing different dates for the crucifixion. Every proposed date could be wrong. But only one can be correct.

Not a different matter at all. The issue/matter is that the exact dates are not known. There is a reason for this, and I don't want to get sidetracked getting into that here. The dates are not supposed to be known. God allowed the dates to be somewhat cloudy and unknown. That is not a reflection on Christians playing a guessing game. (Unless they claim to know for sure)

 

[37818]

Ha, Gotcha! The frequency is only seen here. That means the time between waves observed! That is wholly dependant on time itself and what it is like. Since we see that here we see it in our time. Let me know if I need to break that down more for you.

Of course. Light is dependant on time and space. Matter and energy are dependant on time and space. Space and time are dependant on matter and energy.

Not a different matter at all. The issue/matter is that the exact dates are not known. There is a reason for this, and I don't want to get sidetracked getting into that here. The dates are not supposed to be known. God allowed the dates to be somewhat cloudy and unknown. That is not a reflection on Christians playing a guessing game. (Unless they claim to know for sure)

For starters. What does Mark 14:12 claim? What does ,Exodus 12:6 explain? What does Exodus 12:18 explain? According to Mark 14:12 was Jesus crucified on that day?

 

[dad2]

Of course. Light is dependant on time and space. Matter and energy are dependant on time and space. Space and time are dependant on matter and energy.

Was this leading to some sort of cohesive point? Explain how light that was out in deep space where time was different than any time we know here would operate any other way that the way it had to operate in that time? The only question is 'what is time like exactly out there'? The answer is you do not know. Science does not know. Also, when talking about a time that was different and a space also out there in the far universe, how would you know that the time was dependent on matter and energy? Says who? Prove it.

For starters. What does Mark 14:12 claim? What does ,Exodus 12:6 explain? What does Exodus 12:18 explain? According to Mark 14:12 was Jesus crucified on that day?

Point? Are you suggesting that it is not subject to interpretation? If not, then why would we not know the exact date? People try to determine when the Passover for various years that they think He may have been killed. They are not even sure of the year! Then some claim there may have been an extra Sabbath that particular month.There are many interpretations. Why, do you think you have the exact day and year?

 

[37818]

Was this leading to some sort of cohesive point?

The speed of light in empty space and time are interrelated. Matter cannot move faster than the speed of ligth in empty space. This is commonly understood.

Explain how light that was out in deep space where time was different than any time we know here would operate any other way that the way it had to operate in that time?

It is called disgtance. And light has a finite velocity. Farther away anything is, that anything is seen, the farther away back in time one is seeing a thing. The Sun at the measured 93 million miles away is 8 light minutes away from Earth. 8 minutes in our past the Sun that we would see now. Everything is in the past to everything else. It is a matter of distance. The math of physics only assumes time is fixed and the same in order to do the calculations. The short distances the time differences are almost zero. We experience everything near by as simply now.

The only question is 'what is time like exactly out there'?

Not here, not now. What was. Everything is experienced as a matter of when its light reaches us.

Also, when talking about a time that was different and a space also out there in the far universe, how would you know that the time was dependent on matter and energy? Says who? Prove it.

Distence is measured between things. Things are seen with light. Typically the light seen comes from matter at some distance. So where matter is, it in fact defines space by where it is and time by its distance from us and motion relative to us. Moving away very fast its time measures to be slower, and its light has what is called a red shift.

Point? Are you suggesting that it is not subject to interpretation? If not, then why would we not know the exact date? People try to determine when the Passover for various years that they think He may have been killed. They are not even sure of the year! Then some claim there may have been an extra Sabbath that particular month.There are many interpretations. Why, do you think you have the exact day and year?

You need to learn some things. There two types of Sabbaths. The 7th day Sabbath where not even food preparation is allowed. There are feast day sabbaths where only the food perperation work is allowed. And there are other Sabbath day exceptions where one is allowed to travel short distances.
Jewish days begin with their evenings past sundown. Romans days and hours midnight and midday. So the Jewish day the 6th hour is noon. Roman the 6th hour is either early morning our 6AM or at late afternoon our 6PM. Matthew, Mark and Luke use Jewish hours. John uses Roman. John 19:14 at about the 6th hour 6AM. Mark 15:25 the 3rd hour Jesus is placed on the cross. The point of history is given in Mark 14:12 that was the 14th of that month. Which is when the Passover lambs are killed Exodus 12:6 and the first day of unleaven bread, Exodus 12:18. The Jewish days begin with their evening. The following day began in Mark 14:17.

There is a calendar converion tool that is very good. Calendar Converter

 

[dad2]

The speed of light in empty space and time are interrelated. Matter cannot move faster than the speed of ligth in empty space. This is commonly understood.

Nothing is understood about time in deep space actually. You are talking about a fishbowl theory that you thought was understood.

It is called disgtance. And light has a finite velocity.

Velocity is how much TIME is involved in changing position through space. We cannot know what time in involved out in the unknown universe! You can only measure all things here in our time.

Farther away anything is, that anything is seen, the farther away back in time one is seeing a thing. The Sun at the measured 93 million miles away is 8 light minutes away from Earth. 8 minutes in our past the Sun that we would see now. Everything is in the past to everything else. It is a matter of distance. The math of physics only assumes time is fixed and the same in order to do the calculations. The short distances the time differences are almost zero. We experience everything near by as simply now.

Yes you assume time is the same to be able to concoct a math formula. Maybe they use a little 't' to represent time in a formula. Maybe they use a 'C' to represent how much time per distance light moves. That has no meaning at all unless the time exists the same at all points. The ONLY point of observation man has is here. Here in this little fishbowl of a solar system.and area. As long as your little theory and math and numbers represent this area, fine. When you try to pull a Buzz Lightyear, and say they represent 'infinity and beyond' you leave reality.

Not here, not now. What was. Everything is experienced as a matter of when its light reaches us.

Exactly and all things that reach us are then here! Hers IN our time and space. How much time was involved BEFORE it got here man has absolutely no possible way of knowing!

Distence is measured between things. Things are seen with light. Typically the light seen comes from matter at some distance. So where matter is, it in fact defines space by where it is and time by its distance from us and motion relative to us. Moving away very fast its time measures to be slower, and its light has what is called a red shift.

No. Time is actually not what you say here. Science does not even know what time is. They merely need to visualize time as another dimension in order to include it in their math and concepts. Light here in the fishbowl is shifted for certain reasons which we are familiar. We can't say that the same reasons are why (and only why) light gets shifted in unknown space and time! You simply seek to impose fishbowl math on the universe and fishbowl concepts and time and space. No stellar distances are known. None. Not a one. The distances science uses are imaginary and faith based. They requite time to be the same all the way to the stars. As I mentioned man has only been hardly a few light SECONDS away from earth. The probes man sent are still less than a single light day. You cannot talk about what time is like a whole light week away! Certainly not millions of light years away! You just run little numbers AS IF it was the same.

You need to learn some things. There two types of Sabbaths. The 7th day Sabbath where not even food preparation is allowed. There are feast day sabbaths where only the food perperation work is allowed. And there are other Sabbath day exceptions where one is allowed to travel short distances.
Jewish days begin with their evenings past sundown. Romans days and hours midnight and midday. So the Jewish day the 6th hour is noon. Roman the 6th hour is either early morning our 6AM or at late afternoon our 6PM. Matthew, Mark and Luke use Jewish hours. John uses Roman. John 19:14 at about the 6th hour 6AM. Mark 15:25 the 3rd hour Jesus is placed on the cross. The point of history is given in Mark 14:12 that was the 14th of that month. Which is when the Passover lambs are killed Exodus 12:6 and the first day of unleaven bread, Exodus 12:18. The Jewish days begin with their evening. The following day began in Mark 14:17.

There is a calendar converion tool that is very good. Calendar Converter

Not sure what point you think you are making? Do you claim to know the exact day He was born or killed?

 

[37818]

Velocity is how much TIME is involved in changing position through space. We cannot know what time in involved out in the unknown universe! You can only measure all things here in our time.

NASA - How Big is Our Universe?

Not sure what point you think you are making? Do you claim to know the exact day He was born or killed?

You are correct regarding the date of our Lord Jesus Christ's birth.
But you are wrong about His death and resurrection. Christians as a group do have more wrong ideas on the date of His death and resurrection. And you are a naysayer.
You would deny the actual date.

 

[dad2]

NASA - How Big is Our Universe?

Do you have a point from that link that you think helps you? Use a link for support, and explain the relevant bit in your words, or quoted.

You are correct regarding the date of our Lord Jesus Christ's birth.
But you are wrong about His death and resurrection. Christians as a group do have more wrong ideas on the date of His death and resurrection. And you are a naysayer.
You would deny the actual date.

I have offered no dates, and I did not see you do so. Go ahead tell us actual dates. I see no date from you, just a claim Christians have wrong ideas. That means you know the right idea. Spill the beans.

 

[37818]

Do you have a point from that link that you think helps you? Use a link for support, and explain the relevant bit in your words, or quoted.

As to the link, by your reply it did not matter.
As to time and the creation account, I believe in a very old universe and that the creation account is literally true.
I for one, do not understand your views.

I have offered no dates, and I did not see you do so. Go ahead tell us actual dates. I see no date from you, just a claim Christians have wrong ideas. That means you know the right idea. Spill the beans.

Without all the explanations. Referencing Mark 14:12 was a Wednesday the Jewish calendar date 3790 Nisan 14th. Christ was crucified on a Thursday calendar date 3790 Nisan 15th. Resurrected early Sunday morning calendar date 3790 Nisan 18th.