Time Frames Continued

[JD731]

I think it needful to address a couple points that was made in the closed thread, "what time is it" by Stephen Green. There is error that needs to be corrected.
Warning, this is not a sound bite. If you do not like longer posts than you should dismiss yourself now.

Hello again JD!

I will be brief again, forgive me!

Jeremiah’s prophecy refers to the return after the exile, so that was fulfilled long ago. Pre-messianic prophecy.

Micah on the other hand is a Messianic prophecy, and the mountain and Jerusalem he speaks of is the same which Paul speaks of in Hebrews 12 and Galatians 4. It is a spiritual Jerusalem, the same which descends at the end of Revelation.

I suppose it is worth mentioning, I was born Jewish, I grew up reading the Bible in Hebrew. Daniel was not a part of our Bible. But Daniel changes everything, it puts a clear timeline for when Messiah comes and accomplishes all things. It is very difficult for me to accept all these things you’re saying, because if so many of the Messianic Prophecies of the Old Testament are yet to be fulfilled, then Jesus could not have possibly been Messiah. The Prophecies demand immediate fulfillment within the generation of his first coming. I do not see how any other meaning can be taken from prophecy, it just seems to plain, especially in Daniel.

Jesus is of course the Messiah. I am simply flummoxed by all these contradictory claims that he did not fulfill Messianic expectation in the 1st century. If he hadn’t, Jews wouldn’t have followed him.

look forward to talking more!

We have been programmed by a satanic philosophy that has given us scores of bible translations, the words of which no one seems to believe. We have been led to accept that the choice of words and their meanings in a text is of no consequence and bible translators have the liberty granted by God to present his testimony to the world in their own words and in as many translations, paraphrases and abbreviations as seems right to them. This has caused men to ignore the words of a text rather than to allow them to be taught and instructed from them. Your comment illustrates this.

Jeremiah’s prophecy refers to the return after the exile, so that was fulfilled long ago. Pre-messianic prophecy.

Here is the prophecy I quoted.

Jer 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

At that time and in those days, what? You will return from Babylon? That is not what is said but that is how you read it. What is actually said?

1) "They" shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD.
2) All nations shall be gathered unto Jerusalem
3) They shall no longer walk after the imagination of their own heart.

In those days of that time, what else?

4) The house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel
5) They shall come together out of the land of the north.
6) They will come to the land that God gave for an inheritance to their fathers, which would be Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The house of Israel was dispersed from her land in 722 BC by Assyria and has not returned at this present date. Jeremiah preached this sermon somewhere around 600 BC. Judah was taken captive to Babylon in 588 BC and Babylon was not mentioned by Jeremiah until chapter 20.

Therefore, seeing that none of those 6 things has ever happened in the world, and did not happen when Judah was allowed to return to her land after their exile, then it is reasonable and logical to conclude that your statement concerning this passage is in error, and it actually is a messianic promise to God's elect people, Israel and that it's fulfillment is yet future.

De 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Jer 28:9 The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, [then] shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him.

Eze 33:33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.

My motto is "Believe the Words."

 

[Two Wings]

very cool.

I was just talking with a fellow about the fact the northern 10 tribes were still scattered and couldn't remember where it was prophesied both Israel and Judah would be together again ...

Thanks!

 

[JD731]

I think it needful to address a couple points that was made in the closed thread, "what time is it" by Stephen Green. There is error that needs to be corrected.

Stephen Green said:
Jesus is of course the Messiah. I am simply flummoxed by all these contradictory claims that he did not fulfill Messianic expectation in the 1st century. If he hadn’t, Jews wouldn’t have followed him.

look forward to talking more!
"

Lu 23:20 Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
21 But they cried, saying, Crucify [him], crucify him.
22 And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let [him] go.
23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.

Lu 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.

Flummoxed indeed. This is the Jews following him????

 

[Conan]

Most of the first followers of Jesus were Jews. Peter, Paul, John, James and so on and so forth.

 

[JD731]

Most of the first followers of Jesus were Jews. Peter, Paul, John, James and so on and so forth.

Can you reconcile these two statements by the same man, the same Jesus, the same God, in a historical account that was written by the same man who was his companion and in the same book?

Statement one.

Lk 9:51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
_________________________________________

lK 19:7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

Would you say there is a probation time for this particular group of sinners?

 

[37818]

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Has the meaning of the parable in Luke 19:14. An interpertation of verse 27 is that was fulfilled in ,70 AD.

 

[JD731]

Has the meaning of the parable in Luke 19:14. An interpertation of verse 27 is that was fulfilled in ,70 AD.

You would be so wrong about it that it should be embarrassing to you to teach that the scriptures do not have to have a demonstrable fulfillment. Jesus said this man came back after receiving a kingdom and he came back to reign over it. Another promise that Jesus said about his kingdom that is not a parable and is plain speaking;

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Are you on record as denying the truth of these statements, or say they were fulfilled in AD 70, and if your answer is yes, then will you deny the following plain statement as well?

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[37818]

You would be so wrong about it that it should be embarrassing to you to teach that the scriptures do not have to have a demonstrable fulfillment.

What did I say that was not true?

Has the meaning of the parable in Luke 19:14. An interpertation of verse 27 is that was fulfilled in ,70 AD.

The interpertation exists whether it be corrrect or not.
Do you claim that the teaching in the parable in Luke 19:14 has nother to do with what Jesus said as recorded in Luke 19:27?
From the parable in Luke 19:14, ". . . But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. . . ."
So do you disbelieve Jesus' words when He said, ". . . But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. . . ."? When do you think that will happen? Where non Christian Jews not slayen in 70AD?
You are the one who supposed a probem with the word of God:

Can you reconcile these two statements by the same man, the same Jesus, the same God, in a historical account that was written by the same man who was his companion and in the same book?

Your problem. Not mine.

 

[37818]

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

In the millennium to come.

 

[1689Dave]

very cool.

I was just talking with a fellow about the fact the northern 10 tribes were still scattered and couldn't remember where it was prophesied both Israel and Judah would be together again ...

Thanks!

Did you know Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah ( Revelation 5:5)? And Matthew reveals that He is Israel in person (Matthew 2:15 with Hosea 11:1). So all believers in Christ fulfill this prophecy. The scattered tribes were excommunicated from Israel the Church after Christ abolished circumcision (the thing that made one a Jew) on the cross.

 

[JD731]

Did you know Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah ( Revelation 5:5)? And Matthew reveals that He is Israel in person (Matthew 2:15 with Hosea 11:1). So all believers in Christ fulfill this prophecy. The scattered tribes were excommunicated from Israel the Church after Christ abolished circumcision (the thing that made one a Jew) on the cross.

Hi Dave, not everyone on this forum will agree with your conclusions on the matter and some, like myself, might even think it is a fanciful misapplication, if not a denial, of the words of prophecy that includes promises made in the past that still lacks fulfillment.