Timely Salvations

[mandym]

You are sounding very much like those who criticised [sic] Jesus's[sic] doctrine in his days on the earth.

You sound like those who Paul spoke about that carried another gospel.

 

[convicted1]

You sound like those who Paul spoke about that carried another gospel.

Next time, just go for the jugular....:laugh: :wavey:

 

[Forest]

Consider the thread of paul's reasoning in Rom. 9-10"

Rom. 9:1-3 - Paul is in anguish and sorrow for his fellow Jews, so much so that if himself being accursed would help them be saved, he would wish it.
Rom. 10:1-4 - Paul prays for his fellow jews that they may be saved, because they are depending on their righteousness to save them and not submitting to God's righteousness that comes through christ.
Rom 10: 9-10 - Belief is not only what leads to being "saved" but "justified."!
Rom. 10: 14-15 - Paul shows that people need to go and tell the good news.

If all of this is speaking of ONLY temporal salvation, we have a few hard questions:

1. Why get so worked up "in anguish" and "sorrow" if they are actually elect and will be ultimately saved whether they believe or not. (remember it is the PB view that since they were pursuing righteousness, however incorrectly, it is evidence of their regeneration, even if they rejected Jesus).

2. Is Rom. 10:10 speaking of a "timely" or temporal "justification"? Because Justification in Romans seems to be related to our state before God that determines our eternal acceptance by him.

Romans 10:10 is speaking of a timely deliverance (salvation) and not justification. Our belief leads to a timely salvtion, not to eternal salvation. Yes, we should be telling the lost (not eternally) sheep of the good news that Christ has already covered their sins. The elect that do understand the gospel should get worked up in anguish and sorrow over one of God's sheep who do not have a fellowship with God because of their lack of knowledge. The purpose of the scriptures are to instruct God's elect as to how they should live their lives here in this world. The gospel is not telling anyone how to get saved eternally, but it does tell them that they are already saved eternally, and thats the good news.

 

[convicted1]

Romans 10:10 is speaking of a timely deliverance (salvation) and not justification. Our belief leads to a timely salvtion, not to eternal salvation. Yes, we should be telling the lost (not eternally) sheep of the good news that Christ has already covered their sins. The elect that do understand the gospel should get worked up in anguish and sorrow over one of God's sheep who do not have a fellowship with God because of their lack of knowledge. The purpose of the scriptures are to instruct God's elect as to how they should live their lives here in this world. The gospel is not telling anyone how to get saved eternally, but it does tell them that they are already saved eternally, and thats the good news.

Well, then what is the Gospel telling sinners to do? The Gospel is the power of God to save the believer, the Jew first, and also the Greek(Rom. 1:16). If God's power only saves in a "timely" fashion, then that's a very weak gospel. You can have that gospel, and I'll take God's Gospel, which saves a sinner for eternity.

 

[Forest]

Well, then what is the Gospel telling sinners to do? The Gospel is the power of God to save the believer, the Jew first, and also the Greek(Rom. 1:16). If God's power only saves in a "timely" fashion, then that's a very weak gospel. You can have that gospel, and I'll take God's Gospel, which saves a sinner for eternity.

Eternal salvation was accomplished by Christ on the cross for all that his Father gave him and he will not lose one of them but raise them all up at the last day, John 6:37-41. I am glad that I worship a God that saved me eternally in spit of my actions and that I don't have to depend upon my feeble actions to get saved.

 

[Forest]

Well, then what is the Gospel telling sinners to do? The Gospel is the power of God to save the believer, the Jew first, and also the Greek(Rom. 1:16). If God's power only saves in a "timely" fashion, then that's a very weak gospel. You can have that gospel, and I'll take God's Gospel, which saves a sinner for eternity.

If you think that the born again elect child of God is not a sinner, you had better study your bible some more. I have always said that you can never understand God's grace until you undeerstand the depravity of man, even the elect man.

 

[convicted1]

If you think that the born again elect child of God is not a sinner, you had better study your bible some more. I have always said that you can never understand God's grace until you undeerstand the depravity of man, even the elect man.

Well, I am a born again Christian, and I am not a sinner. Sure, I sin, but I am saved. We can't be labelled a CHRISTian and sinner simultaenously.


A sinner is one who loves the feel, smell, taste of sin. A CHRISTian is someone who still sins, but the Spirit sonvicts them thisquick, and they will repent and ask God to forgive them.

 

[Forest]

Well, I am a born again Christian, and I am not a sinner. Sure, I sin, but I am saved. We can't be labelled a CHRISTian and sinner simultaenously.


A sinner is one who loves the feel, smell, taste of sin. A CHRISTian is someone who still sins, but the Spirit sonvicts them thisquick, and they will repent and ask God to forgive them.

My thoughts exactly, just because we have been born of the Spirit doesn't mean that we do not still have the baggage of our fleshly nature with us, thats why Paul explains the warfare going on inside of us. We still do sin, although it is not counted against us as far as our eternal destination is conceerned. We still are by nature a depravid individual. God engourages us to walk in the Spirit, but we do not always stay in that walk continually. I cannot make the statement that I am not a sinner as you have made, and if you were truthful I think that you would agree that you are still at times a sinner too. God's elect according to the scriptures do some pretty terriable things.

 

[convicted1]

My thoughts exactly, just because we have been born of the Spirit doesn't mean that we do not still have the baggage of our fleshly nature with us, thats why Paul explains the warfare going on inside of us. We still do sin, although it is not counted against us as far as our eternal destination is conceerned. We still are by nature a depravid individual. God engourages us to walk in the Spirit, but we do not always stay in that walk continually. I cannot make the statement that I am not a sinner as you have made, and if you were truthful I think that you would agree that you are still at times a sinner too. God's elect according to the scriptures do some pretty terriable things.

Well, the bible also states that a fountain can not bring forth both sweet and bitter water. I am a born agin CHRISTian, with a flesh that desires to sin. My soul brings my flesh back under subjection, when it rises up. I am not a sinner, but a blood bought CHRISTian.

 

[12strings]

Romans 10:10 is speaking of a timely deliverance (salvation) and not justification. Our belief leads to a timely salvtion, not to eternal salvation. Yes, we should be telling the lost (not eternally) sheep of the good news that Christ has already covered their sins. The elect that do understand the gospel should get worked up in anguish and sorrow over one of God's sheep who do not have a fellowship with God because of their lack of knowledge. The purpose of the scriptures are to instruct God's elect as to how they should live their lives here in this world. The gospel is not telling anyone how to get saved eternally, but it does tell them that they are already saved eternally, and thats the good news.

Well you see, I would agree with you, except that Rom. 10:10 says "WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVES AND IS JUSTIFIED!" But if it didn't, you know, I might agree with you.

I believe the question remains as to why there would be great sorrow in the heart of paul if he is only concerned about people's lives here on earth. If, as the scriptures say, "life is a vapor"...if as paul says, that our lives on earth are but a "light momentary affliction" that is but the precursor to eternal joy.

 

[12strings]

Is it my understanding that you believe that the natural man, void of the Spirit, will pursue righteousness? If so, what is your explination of 1 Cor 2:14?, and Ps 10:4?

Yes, that is your understanding of what I believe...

... but NO, that is not what I beleive. I believe that God grants faith at the point of regeneration, and that faith is exercised to "recieve" (Rom 3) the righteousness and Justification purchased by Christ on the cross.

 

[Forest]

Yes, that is your understanding of what I believe...

... but NO, that is not what I beleive. I believe that God grants faith at the point of regeneration, and that faith is exercised to "recieve" (Rom 3) the righteousness and Justification purchased by Christ on the cross.

sdI am sorry if I missunderstood you. Then you believe that regeneration and faith come at the same time and that faith does not come before regeneration? If thats the way you believe, I will agree. Faith gives us access to the understanding that it was Christ that justified us. Rom 5:2.