Timing of the Rapture

[taisto]

The coming in Revelation 19 is not a meeting in the air. No one is raptured with or to a white horse, to then descend to earth. No other NT author framed the Second Coming from the perspective that is given in Revelation 19. Now who is adding presuppositions to make Scripture align with their interpretation? Those who read the text, or those who read into the text? Revelation 19 is a planned coming. It was given a time frame of 42 months from the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

The description of the 7th Trumpet starts in Revelation 10. The Trumpet sounds in Revelation 11. The fact Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven one last time in Revelation 12, deals directly to the 7th Trumpet. The 42 months starts when Satan arrives as the 3rd woe. The third woe is tied to the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 14 is an alternate ending without those 42 months. There is only one winepress of God's wrath. You cannot kill all of humanity left on earth twice. There are two pictures of this winpress. One is the end of the 7th Trumpet without the 42 months. One is the end of the 7th Trumpet with the 42 months.

The only reason why Jesus leaves and any one is waiting on the sea of glass is to allow for these 42 months to take place on the earth. Those waiting are the sheep and wheat from the final harvest.

The only reason why there is a 42 month period are for at least one person who is beheaded. Remember Abraham asked God to spare Sodom for 10 righteous souls? Not even 10 could be found. Literally only 3 escaped. The 4th looked back.

Think about how many souls Satan wants to have eternal life? None. So even 1 soul beheaded is worth giving Satan 42 months. If there were none to choose being beheaded, then Satan would not be granted a 42 month extension. This time is not for Satan nor the lost who receive the mark. This time is solely for the first person to be beheaded. And as many more who overcome Satan's desires.

Here is why: Daniel 9:27

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

This is the week of the 7th Trumpet when Jesus is declared Prince. That is the declaration of the 7th Trumpet. It is a week long event. It is a week of days. In the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, the mystery will be finished, and time will be called. But the confirmation of the Covenant with the many is with those who will be beheaded. God confirms that 1, or many more than just 1, will remain in the Lamb's book of life. Only God's foreknowledge will be revealed at the time of the 7th Trumpet.

We cannot say which outcome will happen, but only one outcome will happen.

Revelation 13 through 19 are not a done deal nor even set in stone. No one can claim Revelation 19 is the Second Coming, because no one can even know when the Second Coming happens much less if there will even be an Abomination of Desolation until the 7th Trumpet is even sounded.

However Revelation 20 can still happen even if there is not a 42 month period. A few details missing would be the the beast, or as some call the thing, an AC would not exist. The person who would be the FP would still be in the LOF. And there would be no beheaded people resurrected. That resurrection was only for those beheaded. The sheep and wheat along with the 144k are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom. Not those beheaded. Those gathered during the final harvest are who subdue and replenish the earth.

There would be only one Second Coming if the church had turned the world upside down like they did at Pentecost right before the Second Coming. But the Second Coming does not work on man's schedule. Either the church is obedient or apostate. Even Paul was leaning toward the worse case scenario. Should the church just plan on living out the prophetic narrative or make a difference reluctantly like Jonah?

This is not about being sensational. This is about being practical and real about the Word of God. Jesus and Satan don't co-reign for 42 months. Many seem to be looking for Satan to come and make a big bang. When it should be the church that goes out with the biggest bang. We are supposed to be the mountain that fills the whole earth. Why not cover the earth, instead of just tiny ant hills here and there?

It would seem to me that most of the church would prefer being persecuted and killed and have Satan be in charge, as that is the biggest falling away scenario that could happen. What about Daniel who said the mountain would win and fill the earth. We were supposed to prevent the falling away, not give in reluctantly to the falling away. Paul was warning us, not giving us a road map to destruction.

You can ask leading questions all you want. No one says the Second Coming is found in Revelation 20. That is an Amil myth, and presupposition that the thousand years started in the first century. I have always claimed Jesus is on earth for the entire Day of the Lord. I don't claim that Revelation 19 is the Second Coming. I don't even know it will happen, and that is not denying Scripture. That is acknowledging that only one winepress can happen. If you think your parallel view is right, why argue that John paints two pictures of the winepress and only one happens? It is the same principle, just a different outcome. I also think the same earthquake is mentioned in Revelation 11 and 16. Different picture, and different results depending on whose perspective one is using, yet same event.

Going away for 42 months is not the same as going away for an indefinite amount of time. Jesus does not give up the kingdom. The kingdom is just put on hold. One must remember, the only reason for the going away, and the return 42 months later, is for God's longsuffering and the redemption of lost souls. The same as the fulness of the Gentiles and the last 2 millennia. Now you can deny the 42 months are literal and make up your own storyboard about the painted picture John has left us, but you cannot change the Word of God and what John wrote. And obviously we see things a lot differently.

7 Reasons Tom Schreiner (Tentatively) Holds to Amillennialism

 

[Revmitchell]

The wrath is found in the 7 vials.

I don't see wrath in the 7 Trumpets, but judgment. Then Satan is allowed 3 woes. Neither the woes, nor Trumpets are God's wrath.

The Seals would be more like punishment, not Judgment. Disruption of the economy is not judgment but it is irritating.

Withholding rain in Zechariah 14 is a punishment. It is not a judgment that causes destruction. It is an irritating predicament that cause a hardship to work around the problem with other solutions than a natural solution.

A judgment would cause destruction and the loss of life and even property.

Wrath is judgment directed at the individual at the same time as every other individual.

All are effected by wrath. Many are effected by judgment, and a few may be effected by punishment.

Show me one verse or as many as you can that show any soul persecuted by Satan or the world for being a Christian in Revelation 4 through 22.

People have always fought against and killed other people. That is not persecution. Nor am I talking about general persecution against one's ethnicity, lifestyle, nor even religious preferences. Even those beheaded are not like today's souls, martyred for their beliefs. I think the second birth at that point is only obtained by being beheaded. Their only act of repentance and redemption is this only act left available. Death was God's action on the Cross that brought salvation and redemption for all. At the point where the mark is actually being received, I think that the only way out of receiving the mark, is physical death. There is no other option of faith available.

That is why the rapture removes the church before even the first Trumpet sounds. But I take that a step further, because the Second Coming itself is described in both the 5th and 6th Seal.

Jesus and all the angels are on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. They are directly responsible for the trouble, because they are gathering people for judgment to face Jesus on the throne of Judgment. All are being removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh and sent to either damnation or eternal life.

Man the new stuff I see on this board all the time.

 

[kyredneck]

Man the new stuff I see on this board all the time.

‘New prophets’ - new ‘stuff’

@timtofly the prophet.

 

[timtofly]

Man the new stuff I see on this board all the time.

New? This "stuff" has been in black and white in the NT Scriptures for almost 2 thousand years.

 

[timtofly]

‘New prophets’ - new ‘stuff’

@timtofly the prophet.

So pointing out Scripture is a new phenomenon?

What is modern day theology and eschatology then? The actual usage of the word "Amil" is less than a hundred years old. Are all Amil modern day prophets? Is there that big of a difference between Amil and post mill?

 

[taisto]

So pointing out Scripture is a new phenomenon?

What is modern day theology and eschatology then? The actual usage of the word "Amil" is less than a hundred years old. Are all Amil modern day prophets? Is there that big of a difference between Amil and post mill?

The term was coined by dispensationalists. It is their negative term. Amillenialism would be better termed "Present-Millennialism." You would know this from my posts where I tell you that Satan is presently bound for a season.

Dispensationalism is a couple hundred years old, but it is militant in the US.

 

[JonC]

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