Tip Toeing Around the Muslims'

[Soulman]

What you don't seem to understand is that the War on Terror IS the same war we as Christians are fighting. It stems from the same source. Islam.

You keep saying that I want to take up arms and go after muslims. I never once said that. I understand that we are in a spiritual battle. Thus our weapons are not carnal. But there is an aspect to this war that has taken on the physical side. It is against anyone that doesn't believe that Allah is the one true God. Our personal war is just that and not carnal. This one is both. Men saved and lost are under attack and it all is comming from the same source. A hatred of the Judeo Christian way of life.

We are no longer a Christian nation as you pointed out but we are religious. It doesn't matter to the muslims. If we aren't muslims, we need to die. We will and should DEFEND ourselves.

 

[DHK]

What you don't seem to understand is that the War on Terror IS the same war we as Christians are fighting. It stems from the same source. Islam.

You keep saying that I want to take up arms and go after muslims. I never once said that. I understand that we are in a spiritual battle. Thus our weapons are not carnal. But there is an aspect to this war that has taken on the physical side. It is against anyone that doesn't believe that Allah is the one true God. Our personal war is just that and not carnal. This one is both. Men saved and lost are under attack and it all is comming from the same source. A hatred of the Judeo Christian way of life.

We are no longer a Christian nation as you pointed out but we are religious. It doesn't matter to the muslims. If we aren't muslims, we need to die. We will and should DEFEND ourselves.

You indeed imply that we should take up arms and fight an actual physical war that you called a holy war. The pope referred to "Medieval" quote. During those times were the "Holy Wars" called the Crusades, bloody physical wars. You are using the exact same terminology.
Here is your quote:

We don't have carnal weapons? What was used against us on 9/11 sure seemed carnal to me! Once again, this is a spiritual battle being fought on the physical plane. That is why people die. Satan hates man. He deceived as you said over a billion. His aim is to kill and send as many to hell as he can. He will use the physical as well as the physical plane. Oh yes! We are definately in a holy war.

What again did you say? We are in a holy war. It is fought on a physical plane. These are your words.
The meaning is clear. Pick up your arms and go and fight Islam with the sword.
But your problem is: The Bible teaches no such thing. Throughout this thread I have been teaching you this. But you have been pressing this same point all the way through. We are in a holy war you keep on saying. We are in a physical war you keep repeating. No, we are not. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal. They have nothing to do with any kind of physical war or holy war, as it was referred to in the Crusades.
DHK

 

[bapmom]

ok, I haven't read the entire thread yet,

but DHK, are you then saying that the US shouldn't be fighting the war?

Or are you simply saying that as individuals we can't go out and kill all the Muslims? (the last of course I agree with)

 

[DHK]

ok, I haven't read the entire thread yet,

but DHK, are you then saying that the US shouldn't be fighting the war?

Or are you simply saying that as individuals we can't go out and kill all the Muslims? (the last of course I agree with)

I agree that the U.S. should be fighting the war on terrorism, no question about it.
But if you read through the thread Soulman believes that part of the Christain's personal obligation is to fight a physical war against Islam, which, of course, I disagree with. It is not the believer's duty to take vengeance into his own hands. Our war is purely spiritual (2Cor.10:3-5; Eph.6:11-18), not carnal or after the flesh.
DHK

 

[bapmom]

Im sorry,

all I get from reading Soulman's posts is that he believes as a nation we ought not be so scared of pointing out that it is a "holy war" in their minds.......the minds of Islamics specifically.

True, not ALL Muslims are terrorists....but all of the terrorists are Muslim.

In America we are acting like we are scared to say that they are Islamic terrorists........

Most of us do not want to start targeting any and all Muslims, but we do need to realize that the terrorists do fit a profile.

Yes, it is our government's job to go out there and do the warring.......but here in America WE ARE the government. This is not to give us a license as individuals to act against our neighbor in the street, but I do think that as Christians we have the right to join the military and fight the war.

 

[DHK]

Im sorry,

all I get from reading Soulman's posts is that he believes as a nation we ought not be so scared of pointing out that it is a "holy war" in their minds.......the minds of Islamics specifically.

Read the posts carefully. I always addressed Soulman as talking on a personal level, not as part of a nation. He knows that. Look at this post for example:

I believe in prayer as well as you do. God can and does call us to action sometimes as answer to prayer. To pray, sit back and do nothing is the unbiblical position. There are too many examples of God calling His people to arms to do His will.]/b]

By the way. You say I shouldn't use carnal weapons to fight this spiritual war? What am I supposed to do as someone trys to kill my daughter? Pray? I have a little surprise for any one that breaks into my house and trys to hurt my family. I believe God advocates our defending ourselves.

True, not ALL Muslims are terrorists....but all of the terrorists are Muslim.

He says that there are many examples of God giving permission for believers to take up arms. Notice that this discussion is on a personal level. We are not talking about government. He gives one--that of self defence of his family. No other is given. But he said many. How many others can be thought of. We are not speaking of self defence of the family, we are speaking of warfare with the Muslms. Are we to take up arms then with the Muslims as this post implies? His implication is yes. Remember, this is on a personal level; not having to do with the government.
To say that all terrorists are Muslims is a blatant lie.
Gangs, militia groups of very sorts, child molesters, rapists, mobs, etc. All are terrorists. Go around the world. Was Hitler a terrorist--a Muslim? Look at the regimes of North Korea, China, Cambodia, etc. Are these Islamic? NO, not all terrorists are Muslim. That is a lie if I ever read one.

In America we are acting like we are scared to say that they are Islamic terrorists........

Are we? Is this documented?

Most of us do not want to start targeting any and all Muslims, but we do need to realize that the terrorists do fit a profile.

So do blacks, gangs--whether Vietnamese, Chinese, or of any other ethnic origin. They all terrorize your neighborhoods. There are international terrorists that send your technology over to Iran, Somalia, and even to India (non-Muslim). One of the greatest terrorist acts committed was when an Air-India jet liner was blown out of the sky with no survivors. It happened off the coast of Scotland. Those they believe to be responsible are Sikhs, not Muslims. And yes there is a difference between Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. Just because their skin color is similar doesn't make their religion the same.

Yes, it is our government's job to go out there and do the warring.......but here in America WE ARE the government. This is not to give us a license as individuals to act against our neighbor in the street, but I do think that as Christians we have the right to join the military and fight the war.

Any one can join the armed forces if they are so led. I have no objection to that. But to take the law into their own hands is another matter. Many of Soulman's posts imply that our war is physical. Just as Israel could exterminate the Canaanites we can wage a war on Islam, a crusade, a holy war. The "we" are beleivers. It thus becomes a believer's personal responsibility just as it becomes a Muslim's perwsonal responsibility. His thinking is the exact same thinking of a Muslim--vengeance is mine.
DHK

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Who said anything about going out and killing anyone? I have been advocating self defense only. Our government has the obligation to go out and find those responsible to protect us. How dare you compare the United States government with that of Hitler. You are truly grasping at straws simply for the sake of arguing.

You are from Canada. That explains why you don't want to defend yourself. Your military is incapable at best. Besides you have our young pagan children protecting your behind. You aught to thank God for that!

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with self-defense. Self-defense was attacking Afghanistan. Iraq is totally different.

 

[Soulman]

Quoted by StraightandNarrow: The war in Iraq has nothing to do with self-defense. Self-defense was attacking Afghanistan. Iraq is totally different. End quote

Who mentioned the war in Iraq? Besides it was a pre-emptive strike. Our president received poor intel telling him there were weapons of mass destruction at a very volatile time in our history. I believe he did the right thing. But this issue is for another thread.

Bapmom: Thank you for seeing what I was trying to say. I am running out of ways to say it. DHK is bent on believing I want to take up arms and kill muslims. I am for defense only and that is from anyone. I do believe this is a holy war because it has it's roots in religion. Terrorists want us dead because we don't believe in Allah. They have brought the war on terror to the physical plane.

Back to the origional subject: I think all these peace luvin muslims everyone keeps talking about should apologize to us for their so called fringe fanatics. Where is their voice condemning what has been done and what is happening around the world?

Why does the media tip toe around the muslims? Why are we afraid to show our distain for their actions and their peace luvin counterparts' inaction?

We are at war and Christians are best suited to recognize it's roots.

We should NOT take up arms and go after anyone. But should be educated and ready to defend ourselves and our nation. There is NOTHING wrong with that DHK.

We are in a holy war. DHK, You talk about the holy wars as bloody crusades. What do you think is happening right now? The forces of darkness are gaining strength and we need to pray for deliverance. God gave Israel the victory over the Palistinians but they still had to fight.

Can you hear me now??:BangHead:

 

[DHK]

We should NOT take up arms and go after anyone. But should be educated and ready to defend ourselves and our nation. There is NOTHING wrong with that DHK.

Quote me where I said there was. Since I began this discussion with you it has always been on a personal level not on a political or national level.
2Cor.10:3-5 and Eph.6:11-18 speak about the believer's personal walk with God, not your government's walk with God.
Do you not consider the Scripture that I quote to you. It has nothing to do with government, and the government taking up arms. So why bring the government into this discussion. Did we not agree that America is not a Christian nation. It is secular and humanistic. Your reference to the government is nothing but a red herring.

The question is: What is our personal responisibility toward Muslims; not our governments responsibility--but our own personal responsibility? Soulman what is your personal responsibillity toward Islam, and just how do you intend to carry out a holy war against Islam? Can you answer that question without bringing the government into this discussion?

We are in a holy war. DHK, You talk about the holy wars as bloody crusades. What do you think is happening right now? The forces of darkness are gaining strength and we need to pray for deliverance. God gave Israel the victory over the Palistinians but they still had to fight.

Wasn't it Clinton who used the word "Crusade" which backfired on him and then he had to do some political back-peddling. Words have meaning. Some of them are very offensive when used in particular contexts. The Pope may have quoted from a medieval source, but no one else knew that. His words to the Muslims thus were offensive. There are certain works that blaspheme the name of Christ, that if people quote or publish, we become offended. We are just not quite so emotionally upset as many Muslims are (generally speaking).
The Bible says to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
What kind of holy war are speaking of. The weapons of are warfare are not carnal. So what does that leave us with? It leaves us with prayer, the gospel, the shield of faith, and the rest of the armour of God. It does not leave us with carnal warfare to take up arms of anykind.

If more people would practice to love their enemy and bless them that persecute you, the terrorism would slowly start to go away. But not even Christians think that way. Even Christians want a share of their "vengeance."

Can you hear me now??:BangHead:

The only kind of holy war I know of is one fought with prayer and the power of the gospel. If you want the terrorism of Islam to stop, then go and win them to Christ.

Here is something for you to think about: The Catholic Church has persecuted more and killed more believers than any other organization in history. Take into consideration all of the Crusades, the Inquisitions, and the other bloody reigns by Catholic monarchs supported by the popes, and one has millions upon millions of Biblle-believing martyrs who have been slaughtered at the hands of the Catholics.
The Catholics have terrorized this world for centuries.
You single out the Muslims. Why?
I propose to you that the Catholics are or have been just as much the terrorists as you consider Islam today. And it is the Catholics that are still trying to build the one world church of the anti-Christ. If that be true, then which one poses the greater threat?
DHK

 

[Soulman]

Quoted by DHK: The question is: What is our personal responisibility toward Muslims; not our governments responsibility--but our own personal responsibility? Soulman what is your personal responsibillity toward Islam, and just how do you intend to carry out a holy war against Islam? Can you answer that question without bringing the government into this discussion? End quote

If I come across muslims my responsibility is to give them the gospel. Islam as a religion is out of the pit of hell. My responsibility is to expose it and disarm it at any opportunity. I don't want to carry out a holy war against Islam. They are on the offensive. I simply advocate defending ourselves when attacked. (no govt.)

Quote: There are certain works that blaspheme the name of Christ, that if people quote or publish, we become offended. We are just not quite so emotionally upset as many Muslims are (generally speaking). End quote

Muslims tend to take it to the extreme. Remember Simon Rushdie? He is still in hiding. It is not uncommon for them to kill anyone that offends or speaks out against Islam.

Quote: If more people would practice to love their enemy and bless them that persecute you, the terrorism would slowly start to go away.End quote

I believe that if militant muslims showed up on my door step and I loved them and blessed them, it would only make it easier to kill me. Remember. They hate our Christianity.

Quote: Even Christians want a share of their "vengeance." End quote

It isn't that christians want a share of the vengence. If some do, they aren't right with God. We understand that there is no logic behind this murderous religion other than an evil plot to take over the world. I have stated throughout this thread that I advocate defense, not agression.

Quote: Here is something for you to think about: The Catholic Church has persecuted more and killed more believers than any other organization in history. Take into consideration all of the Crusades, the Inquisitions, and the other bloody reigns by Catholic monarchs supported by the popes, and one has millions upon millions of Biblle-believing martyrs who have been slaughtered at the hands of the Catholics.
The Catholics have terrorized this world for centuries.
You single out the Muslims. Why?
I propose to you that the Catholics are or have been just as much the terrorists as you consider Islam today. And it is the Catholics that are still trying to build the one world church of the anti-Christ. If that be true, then which one poses the greater threat? End quote

DHK, You are 100% right about catholicisim. If you look back on some of my other threads, you will see that I have come out hard after catholicisim. It is every bit as wicked as Islam. The only reason they are getting all cuddly with christians is because they aren't powerful enough at this time in history to repeat their past treatment of us. They killed over 59 million christians in the name of Christ!

slam and Catholicisim are the two largest religions in the world. I believe they equally pose a threat in their own ways.

 

[El_Guero]

How so?

:type:

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with self-defense. Self-defense was attacking Afghanistan. Iraq is totally different.